Church Street Intersection: Ticking Time Bomb

How come the intersection at Locust and Courthouse in front of Maud's house is an all-way stop, but the rest of us have to fend for ourselves at Locust and Park and at Church and Lawyers? Forget the $40k blue bins, Laurie, and buy some stop signs. The new four-way stop at Park and Tapawingo works great! Sure, you have to stop, but there's never a backup (it use to back up waiting for left turns but not anymore, and no more passing on the right, either!) and everyone gets through quickly now without the daily stress of near death. Same at Locust and Branch... was a pain in the Maud until the Town FINALLY installed some stop signs. It's really rather simple, folks... if you have non-stop traffic at intersections, YOU NEED TRAFFIC STOPS!!!

"..if you have non-stop traffic at intersections, YOU NEED TRAFFIC STOPS!!!.."

Really?
Common courtesy won't work?
I understand your point that VTC has no clue about important things, but why get government involved in what can be attained by human behavior?
Just a thought. :-)

>>Really? Common courtesy won't work?

No. Courtesy is a learned behavioral elective. As population and traffic density increase, common courtesy becomes less common. Driving from any small town to a large metro area will demonstrate this. People can be stupid and rude and criminal and incapable of common courtesy.

>>I understand your point that VTC has no clue about important things, but why get government involved in what can be attained by human behavior?

I understand your point... it's the same ol' conservative rant against liberalism... downsize government, deregulate society, let the free market seek its healthy natural equilibrium and we will all be free and prosper. Right. So let's just rip up law and order and let common courtesy control traffic in Vienna. Right. The problem with government is not government... the problem with government is stupid, rude, criminal people. But as Rummy would say, you build your society with the people you've got, not the people you wish you had. Or, you regulate for the human behavior you've got, not the human behavior you wish you had.

The whole philosophy behind Maud's government is to do as little as possible, to change as little as possible to preserve small town Vienna. I appreciate that... we value that intent. But ignoring real problems will not make them go away... this is where Vienna has got it wrong... we're smack in the middle of Northern Virginia, 13 miles from DC on the eastern seaboard... urbanization isn't going to quietly sidestep our town for the next 200 years. There were multiple traffic accidents at Park and Tapawingo in the span of a few weeks last fall... people getting hurt and property getting damaged. The Town finally put up a few stop signs and now that intersection is a pleasure to navigate. Good government is all about managing human behavior for the common good.

I totally agree with what Town Green is saying. The behavior of many people when they get behind the real is mind boggling. And to think the town council would rather perpetuate this sort of "sharks and minnows" behavior with the more aggressive vehicles plowing their way through these intersections and mindlessly or arrogantly (who knows the difference nowadays) missing hitting other cars or people by mere inches, is absolutely insane.

We desperately need better people to deal with these issues, and not just sit back as usual and give us lip service.

Jane's solution to cut through traffic is "I will agree not to cut through your neighborhood and you agree not to cut through mine." How inspirational!
The problem is that the 80,000 other people cutting through Vienna did not get that memo!!!

Why is Church Street ONE WAY in part???

Common courtesy doesn't work at intersections where one way legally has to stop and the other way NEVER has to stop.

I'd put stop signs everywhere.

I would rather not "hijack" this thread to fuss over your neighborhood. Apparently you live near Park street.
My thoughts are not "...same ol' conservative rant against liberalism..".
I just don't see a need to put up a traffic control device every place 2 streets intersect. My family has been in town since 1964. I seem to manage getting around. What impedes MY progress is all of the added stop signs.

People already don't know how to handle turning left, unless they have an arrow. And 4-way stop signs? Holy crap! It sends them into a tizzy!!!

Call me conservative...you might be right...call me liberal...yep...I walk the fence. But why should you need a government body to regulate and control aspects of your life for you..unless you work for the government and are promoting self-perpetuation.
Sorry. In that area, I guess I am a conservative...I don't think we need regulation of everything.

You can have the last word on this. The original post was about Church and Lawyers.
Apologies to HV.com for doing what I said I didn't want to do...hijacking it. :-)

I just witnessed 5 cars turning into each other at this intersection. No one was going to back down - it's nuts.

I just don't see a need to put up a traffic control device every place 2 streets intersect.

Of course, we agree. You don't need an all-way stop at Elmar and Park, since they both aren't major routes. But Park is major... and Tapawingo is major... both carry non-stop traffic at peak times and their intersection needed an all-way stop.

You also don't need an all-way stop at Glyndon and Ayito... but the Town put one there because some mommies whined about their kids having to cross Glyndon to walk to school. Never mind all the other kids in Vienna who walk in the streets due to no sidewalks! Now that's a ridiculous all-way stop on a hill and never another car in sight... just dumping brake pad and tire dust into the Bay.

To "curious",
Until a few years ago Church St between Lawyers and Pleasant was blocked off to through traffic in BOTH directions because some "Historic" folks on the "Hill" (Windover)thought, if opened, it would INCREASE traffic on Windover. Go figure! It was opened to its present partly one way status on a "trial" basis. Why it remains that way is unclear, but I guess it makes more sense than putting up barricades to stop cut through traffic.

For anyone who was at the April 23, 2007 council meeting, it should be painfully obvious why traffic is so messed up in Vienna. Decisions on where to put signs and speed bumps are made by a group of people who have absolutely no place making such decisions. They are not traffic engineers; they have no knowledge of the subject beyond that of a casual user. Further, they can't even find fault with illogical arguments!

What I saw last Monday was a giant love-fest, making the halls ring with cries of "Won't you think of the children?" There were specious and self-contradicting arguments for a speed bump on Park St NE, and stop signs at two intersections. There was no thought at all to the side effects.

The final effect of this new speed bump and two new 3-way stops will be the people that already follow the rules will be inconvenienced. The people that already don't stop for signs and speed, will continue to do so.

If the council can't even handle a simple speed bump, there's no way ever that they can handle a complex and busy intersection like Church & Lawyers.

Don't forget there already is a speed dip on Park St. NE. It is disguised as a ditch and is otherwise an illegal speed control which must be three hundred feet from an intersection. The ditch was not severe enough for the then mayor of Vienna.