Mother Maud Lost in the 1950s

I bet that if the Vienna Maple/123 commercial corridor were rebuilt in the best authentic retro fashion of the 50's, it would be a huge success!... far better than a canyon paved with traffic and lined with 6 story condos and parking garages (visit Herndon or Falls Church to see this going up). I say level the Vienna Inn and put in a drive-in hamburger joint with car hops and neon lights! It's pretty pathetic that the best hangout in Town we can offer our kids is that tiny goofy Noodles. We should be designing and building Vienna for people, not for developers. Everything Bukont builds is all about Bukont (never gamble with a guy that won't put his chips down!). His houses will be expensive to maintain... but he doesn't care that your trim and porches will rot off every 5 years... that's your problem. You say pretty, but I say that's not enough... pretty without smart is pretty stupid! The advocates of 6 story buildings and parking garages along Maple don't care that you will be stuck in traffic everyday on our Beltway Bypass... or hauling your crap up and down... or driving into a garage and then up to your hole, disconnected from the community around you. Maybe Maud is not about the 50's but is about what's good for people in daily living? Why did you move to Vienna? You came for the development?

Thoughts:

1. Many buildings on Maple are nearing the end of their economic life or are already there. Many are non-conforming (Anita's across from Magruders as an example), so they can't tear it down and build it back in same footprint. That leaves many owners of buildings sitting there with no incentive to do anything while many buildings are literally falling down. Maple Avenue looks terrible by and large when you examine any type of pictorial inventory.

2. A builder could buy Giant Shopping Center as is right now and build essentially a big square that encompasses every square inch of the property. Vienna would have no say in the look or feel except to say it stays 3 stories.

3. Vienna is not a walkable community in any way, stretch or form. Redevelopment if done right (not like Bukont's Church Street sidewalk disaster), can offer solutions.

4. The Vision Committee addressed "canyon issues". Taller buildings would step back as they get taller.

While you have fixated on 5-6 stories as the end of the world, the Maple Avenue Vision Committee looked at redevelopment with many issues in mind. Height changes were but one issue.

If we go your way (or Maud's way), it's anyone's guess what Maple Avenue might look like. There is no leadership and no governing law that leaves us with anything predictable. Going along "as is" (Maud's way again) is not a solution to real and complicated problems.

Further to the "canyon" scare tactic, because that is what it is, there are multiple buildings in Vienna right now that exceed three stories. The idea here is not to just scream "NO" at the thought of something "new", but rather to PLAN it all out. A 5-story building set back off the street (like Tara Thai building) does not create a canyon. And let's get to the root of why height is even an issue: if there is NO incentive (which is the current case), Maple Avenue stays by and large a pedestrian unfriendly eyesore held together by an antiquated zoning code that will eventually bring redevelopment that is unplanned and controlled by the very developers you worry about. Developers look for weakness and it's only a matter of time until the Maple Avenue corridor is exploited to something grotesque not controlled by the people of Vienna.

>>1. Many buildings on Maple are nearing the end of their economic life

Agreed.

>>2. A builder could buy Giant Shopping Center as is right now and build essentially a big square

A Giant Square would be constrained by parking requirements, assuming the Town enforces their own code.

>>3. Vienna is not a walkable community in any way, stretch or form. Redevelopment if done right (not like Bukont's Church Street sidewalk disaster), can offer solutions.

Generally agree and especially about Bukont's Crunch Street disaster, except... Vienna is far more pedestrian-enabled than most of Fairfax County. Plus it has the crown jewel, the W&OD trail, plus some nice stream valleys. I think Vienna has great potential for community-wide pedestrian sidewalk and natural foot trail enhancements, all tied into the Maple/123 commercial corridor AND Tysons Corner, including hiking trails through woods along the W&OD from east to west... I've mapped these in my mind already... you can hike Vienna and beyond! Unfortunately, the Parks Department is too busy weaving baskets to develop these natural resources.

>>4. The Vision Committee addressed "canyon issues". Taller buildings would step back as they get taller.

There is not much depth to work with... maybe in a few places but such develop-able sites should be considered part of a whole, imo, to end up with something really nice. Plus this push-back treatment will not improve the surrounding infrastructure... the roads! I need to see a plan... a good one not from an unlicensed pastry chef like Bukont. Experienced architects and urban planners better understand the total picture and the overhead required to enable a development to really work. Sitting around Town commission meetings with lay people musing about the advantages of zoning A over zoning B, or listening to Bukont share his residential tricks, subjagating this or that to make a property do this or do that (and then look like they've been crunched into submission) is not the way to realize a plan.

>>While you have fixated on 5-6 stories

It's the worst-case scenario of the in-and-out developer.

The Town should hire a planner, pick the most likely target like the Safeway blocks or the Magruder blocks bothsides, draft a concept, organize the property owners, refine the concept, decide zoning and financial incentives that can be extended to all, organize some investors, and then do it. I'm sure there are others more qualified than me who can improve upon this proposal.

>>Further to the "canyon" scare tactic

Do you like the look of the Route 7 canyon in Falls Church? I don't. I also don't want more density in Vienna... don't want it/don't need it... it's totally unrequired as far as I'm concerned... Tysons and Merrifield are close enough. If Vienna remained low-rise stylish strip joints of dining, entertainment, and daily shopping... I'd be happy with that. I have no need for taller buildings in Vienna... none... I don't use the Tara Thai building... nor that other one... and I don't live in a condo. Sorry, but I've got no use for tall buildings in Vienna.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that nothing good will happen regarding the redevelopment of Vienna unless we allow tall buildings. I'd rather have what we have now than tall buildings and higher density.

I agree generally with where you are going, but the Town is refusing to do anything professionally. Maud and Jane making it up with no expertise. That is where we are at. However, if we give no incentive (i.e. no height, other incentives), we will end up with a disaster of uncontrolled development (or buildings just dying). Redevelopment is coming and unless we control it, it will control us. In terms of the big block on Giant, that is legal now and TC knows it.

>Maud and Jane making it up with no expertise.

I've not met Maud, but I suspect her approach is normal... to drag her feet and do nothing is better than doing what she doesn't feel comfortable doing, for whatever reason. But these days, people learn to reach out and get the help they need when they need it. And that doesn't mean trying to turn your convenient neighborhood house builder into your pet community planner.

I met Jane on her campaign trail. She's a peekaboo ditz! She didn't want to discuss anything, didn't want to be there... just wanted to shove her name in our hands and move on. In retrospect, she was doing us a favor. She's just a convenient figurehead that needs to go... put a camera on her in Council chambers and she's toast... back to flipping library books.

You're right... Vienna has plenty of talented younger people who could help improve Town government.

I talk to many young(er) parents around town. They like Alexandria/Arlington but moved to Vienna because of schools and more affordable housing. Many still travel back to the new Clarendon (or Reston Town Center) to walk around, shop and eat. I don't know anyone who would say "Gee, I could park, walk, eat & shop" - that would stink. No one does that in Vienna. It is all in/out shopping. And, usually having to travel to multiple strip malls all over town.

NO one moves to town because they like Vienna's crappy strip malls. The jokes about how ugly downtown Vienna is are endless.

I think Vienna would be awesome if the sidewalks along Maple were 12-15 feet wide which would allow for several moms with strollers to pass one another. Currently, if 2 people come across one another - someone usually has to step aside.

The thing that is most frustrating about this whole conversation is that the older generation will NOT step aside at any point and listen to what younger folks may want/need. That one night at town hall last summer with nearly everyone in the room describing how they want Vienna to be really did say it all. We were all in agreement and Maud was silently losing her mind.

My generation has a much different take on life & it does feel more urban/pedestrian friendly.

>>I think Vienna would be awesome if the sidewalks along Maple were 12-15 feet wide which would allow for several moms with strollers to pass one another. Currently, if 2 people come across one another - someone usually has to step aside.

So, so true! Aside from the lousy choice of brickwork and a design style that will always be breaking up and tripping you, the entire Maple Avenue renovation is a total flop because it fails to meet its most basic need... to provide for PEOPLE BEING PEOPLE! It's a perfect example of what you get when you have no vision, no passion, and only paper pushers over seeing contracts. Same problem and mess at Waters Field! The Town has got to stop putting its Director of Parks and Recreation in charge of important capital improvement projects just because she's got a lightweight job. Perfect example of Garden Club government... putting the Director of Parks and Recreation in charge of capital improvements... I can't wait to see what mindless incompetence surfaces at the Town Green.

Waters Field?...when they installed new fencing along the side of the left field line, they put in a pitchers warm up mound and home-plate. How brainless were they? The pitcher was pitching toward Center Street with a 4-foot fence behind the catcher! How does one put a four foot fence behind a catcher when right behind the catcher are moving cars? Garden clubbers who have no clue is how. Can you imagine the liability if they did not fix it (and it wasn't fixed immediately) and a 90 MPH fastball sailed into a windshield killing someone? They simply don't know and don't care. They are lazy and inept.

Better yet, you should have seen these same people debate the new scoreboard at Waters Field. They actually made the scoreboard go before the Commercial Architectural Review Board...the same Board that includes this whack job. I agree - the whole Parks and Rec thing has no oversight. It is a boondoggle of the highest order.

Here's an example of redevelopment in Falls Church. Of course, Vienna doesn't have the space for a project of this scale, but it could do something smaller in scale in its Town center surrounding the W&OD/Piney Branch valley. Notice that Falls Church has enlisted QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS, not a house builder and its parks and recreation staff. Check out the many relevant slides in this presentation. Now might be a good time to buy some teardowns in Falls Church.

Vienna has the land: see. All of that is ready to move forward.

I see what you mean... not quite the 22 acres Falls Church is developing, but there's space, particularly up against the Historic District surrounding Chuck's new house.

The entire Magruders land, including Maud's private parking lot that has been empty everyday for 25 years, is really closer to 4 acres.

And Tom Davis would negotiate anything the people of Vienna wanted for the Post Office. As of right now it is 4.2 acres of an antiquated eyesore. It is an abysmal use of land as designed. The Post Master there wanted to move forward, but Maud killed it.

I see that the Atlantic Realty Companies (profesionals doing Falls Church) is based out of Vienna. What irony.

In retrospect why do we care what the Maple Ave. corridor looks like when developed. We are not a showplace of the nation but a bedroom community. What we need on Maple Ave are stores that provide everyday needs and plenty of parking. I guess sidewalks that make sense should not be left out. As far as designing taller buildings I have lived in condos where the second and third floors living space is stepped back with a patio on the front roof. The design eliminated the height factor. Think.