Vienna Demographics After 53 Years of Robinson Control

Scary stuff indeed.
But it seems that "Vienna" wants it that way, like it or not.
The elections (albeit suspect) have shown that. If the majority wanted change, they would come and prove it at the polls. I cast my vote.
Hopefully it was recorded the way I cast it: Stich-Brehony, but the bottom line is that Vienna seems to LIKE the way it is. Or apathy abounds.
Bizarre, but seemingly true.

Good points 'tbrduc'. Let's just hope more people eventually see the simple truth here. Let's hope they just don't get it all yet.

Two words: Fall Elections

Let's get rid of that ridiculous Election Day dog-and-pony show.

Some older Vienna residents have said that property deeds in Vienna actually prevented certain ethnic groups from owning certain properties. The search is on...

...but to tell me it has anything other to do with the fact that they have moved out of Vienna due to higher taxes and so forth is silly...unless you dig a bit deeper and realize that people like Seeman and Robinson do appear to be racist in their remarks.

Keep digging because when you call someone a racist, that is a serious allegation and you better be able to back it up. I'm not convinced by your inane accusations, insinuations or obscure connections that you are reaching to make (e.g. Maud lived in a time of segregation and frequented segregated establishments so she must be racist or Jane's son's a whacko so she must be too because she posted on his website). On one hand, you get all bent out of shape by the elements in/around the Wolftrappe Motel, yet you think Maud should support HUD and public housing programs? What is usually associated with public housing - the same things you blame the motel for (crime, drugs, etc.)

I think the trend has more to do with gentrification and an influx of wealthier residents who have displaced some prior (elderly or less affluent) residents, African-American or otherwise.

In terms of diversity, if you look at the breakdown within Vienna's public schools, you actually may see that we usually meet and/or sometimes exceed the state averages within other (hispanic and asian) ethnic categories.

Jane's son's a whacko so she must be too because she posted on his website

I think it is a bit odd that she has posted on such an inflammatory site. Did she really think no one would ever see it?

EVS wrote:

I think the trend has more to do with gentrification and an influx of wealthier residents who have displaced some prior (elderly or less affluent) residents, African-American or otherwise.

To which I respond:

You have made some very rational points in your post, a seeming rarity here.

Vienna has had a lower than average black population for as long as I have been around the town, and that goes back over thirty years.

In reading all this diatribe about racism at the governmental level in Vienna, which is pretty much unsubstantiated in my view thus far, I recall something that has stuck with me since the late sixties or early seventies.

I obtained, way back then, a small flyer that was published by either the Vienna Chamber of Commerce or by the Jaycees of Vienna. The purpose of the flyer was to provide information about the town to persons interested in moving to Vienna. The flyer proudly stated that the black population percentage in Vienna was quite a bit lower than in other jurisdictions in the metro area. The thrust of the information as presented was clearly meant to imply that Vienna therefore represented a superior location to move to if you were opposed to living in a town with more than a just a handful of black folks.

The reason I mention this is to indicate that it was the business community of Vienna that was blatanly and proudly playing the race card in this instance, not the town government.

The question can then become, can you really find a large degree of separation between the business community and the offices of government? Can a racist government continue in office without the support of the business community? Can a racist business community continue without the support of a racist government? Can either continue without the support of the community at large?

You have made some very rational points in your post, a seeming rarity here.

EVS is the ONLY person on here (besides yourself, of course) who is rational. You just CHOOSE not to address the points you find hard to justify since you obviously are sleeping with the enemy.

irrational poster says:

EVS is the ONLY person on here (besides yourself, of course) who is rational. You just CHOOSE not to address the points you find hard to justify since you obviously are sleeping with the enemy.

I say:

I have been addressing most of the points that I have the time to address.

I am not in disagreement with some of the foundational points being made here. I just have a hard time with the Rush Limbaugh-type of posts and responses.

To wit, your claim that I am "sleeping with the enemy." That is just silly. This all begins to remind me of the famous Bushism, "You are either with us or you are against us." No middle ground, no room for movement one way or another, and no give and take. My way or the highway. Love it or leave it.

It is my opinion, that for the sake of reasonable conversation, which is actually a means of causing others to begin to become convinced that you are right on an issue, unsubstantiated claims and outright falsehoods should be avoided, along with too many absolutisms.

Re Steve Rigby's post "The question can then become, can you really find a large degree of separation between the business community and the offices of government? Can a racist government continue in office without the support of the business community? Can a racist business community continue without the support of a racist government? Can either continue without the support of the community at large?"

We are not here to contemplate the seed of racism in Vienna. What we are interested in the bigger picture: all the corruption, abuses, back room dealings, nepotism, and all the manners and activities this group of corrupt politicians use to stay in power, i.e. election tampering and coercion. This is what Steve Bukont referred to as "playing their game" when he went storming out of his meeting yelling expletives to everyone, and later resigned.

You don't have to dig very deep here to smell that things are not what they seem. Why did Steve Bukont, who supported everything the Maple Avenue Vision Committee stood for, then do a complete 180 after Maud had her special talk with him. Doubt what we have uncovered? Dig deeper.

This site is bringing to light the people behind the corruption, their motives, the incompetent and abusive acts and statements, the unconstitutional historic district, the unconstitutional ways of the ARB, and the "special deals" certain people get when every one else has to play by a different set of rules.

If you ever happen to deal with the folks down in Fairfax County with building permits or whatever, they are well versed in Vienna's shenanigans. And if this is the way they openly talk about our town officials, there's got to be a reason: where there's smoke, there's fire.

>>This is what Steve Bukont referred to as "playing their game"

I sure miss the picture you posted here of Bukont playing the game with Mayor "PeekaBoob" Seeman. I suppose he sent you a nasty letter demanding its removal. Can't blame him... he looked like a fish out of water playing peekaboo black jack with the church ladies.

"We are not here to contemplate the seed of racism in Vienna". Then what's with this and other posts alluding to racism and lack of diversity, with promises that you'll uncover more? Is it just a "funny feeling"? You've essentially called Maud and Jane racists and imply that there's been an ongoing, systematic plan to remove all African Americans from Vienna.

If you're talking corruption, that's another thing entirely.

Steve, as you've found, there usually isn't any middle ground on this site. If you disagree or question, prepare to get blasted by the regulars here.

Oh, and Vienna Mommy, you say "I think it is a bit odd that she has posted on such an inflammatory site." It's odd that I'm posting here on such a "derogatory" site, but that doesn't mean I have the same thoughts or beliefs as you or the host of this site, does it?!

1. Maud is the real Mayor of Vienna in terms of power.

2. Jane is a clear #2.

3. Both Gomer and Goober, for their last two elections, put Tommy "The Sheet" Seeman at the Vienna polls all day long to hand out their literature and work the crowds. Why him? Wasn't there anyone else except HIM willing to work for Vienna's most powerful two politicians? And if you were Gomer and Goober, wouldn't you want distance from this guy as fast as humanly possible?

From EVS:

Steve, as you've found, there usually isn't any middle ground on this site. If you disagree or question, prepare to get blasted by the regulars here.

I respond with:

I have run across many such sites over the years, and after having done but of bit of reading prior to posting anything, I was well aware of what to expect, and as I said earlier in another post, I was not disappointed.

That being said, EVS, as surely as it seems that the choir members here appear to want to elicit some support within the community, and hope to win over skeptics of their concepts, precepts and their eventual goals, they do all they can to shoo us away through their crude behavior.

Oh, and Vienna Mommy, you say "I think it is a bit odd that she has posted on such an inflammatory site." It's odd that I'm posting here on such a "derogatory" site, but that doesn't mean I have the same thoughts or beliefs as you or the host of this site, does it?!

What are my beliefs again? I keep forgetting.

I just have a hard time understanding how Maud is good for Vienna anymore (or ever has been).

Vienna Mommy,

Based on some of your posts here, I think I know what SOME of your opinions and beliefs are, but the point was that you shouldn't immediately assume that posting on a blog means you agree with the host's beliefs and opinions. I think Jane's post on her son's site was poor judgment (as is including him in campaigning efforts), but does that prove she's a racist?

Maud being no good or the noted issues of corruption doesn't necessarily relate or equate to implied charges of racism in this particular/original post. So continue to post about those issues and I probably won't disagree, but some of these allegations and exaggerations seem to go too far and in turn, I think it causes this site to lose some of its credibility.

I realize that anecdotal evidence can only get you but so far but there are enough old-timers running around Vienna that have "stories" of Maud's preference for how she would like her community to be.

Historic Vienna:

Some older Vienna residents have said that property deeds in Vienna actually prevented certain ethnic groups from owning certain properties. The search is on...
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Check it out. I know you will. I'd love to see evidence of this, but being intellectually lazy, you already know that I would never be either willing to or able to investigate this myself.

This type of stuff, these "Covenent Deeds" as they often turn out to be in legal parlance, are not uncommon. Just recently, some nationally known political luminary was found to be the owner of a piece of property that contractually prohibited the conveyance of the property, in any form, to a person of color.

And, there was something recently down near Richmond(surprise! surprise!) where something similar came up regarding some well-heeled and influential Virginian. In either case, I cannot recall who the people were.

WARNING!
Considering the source, the spewer of misinformation, all of the above is clearly and obviously false and is purely intended to "distract and divert us from the real issues," a TRUE FACT as so stated by another conscientious member of the choir.

Steve, you ask for proof and you provide it. You have me confused.

Not confused but confused:

Steve, you ask for proof and you provide it. You have me confused.
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No intent to confuse was intended. I was speaking to such deeds specifically pertinent to Vienna.

I was merely trying to suggest that a search for same may not take very long, as such practices were not uncommon in earlier times, and many of those deeds have remained unchanged over the years, often just because the contemporary holders of those documents never bothered to read them to discover what they contained.

Other holders of such deeds do read them, understand what they contain, and support those racist provisions.