Maud Robinson: Sign Hypocrite

and why the obsession with signs anyway? that seems to be the only thing the "architectural" review board regulates. If the town had a real design code to regulate aesthetics properly, the streetscape would look good enough that signs wouldn't matter. Businesses could use their own logos, colors, etc. and it would be just fine.

Politicians with no design experience created these ordinances. They keep the ordinances as is not because they work effectively or make Vienna look better, etc., but rather because these ordinances gives the people who sit on the Vienna Town Council power over others.

One Vienna Town Council member was told about Fairfax City's redevelopment, how nice it looked, etc. The immediate retort? "All of those people will lose their seats at the next election because people are unhappy about the redevelopment."

There was not even for a split second the ability for this Vienna Town Council member to register and acknowledge the achievement of Fairfax City's efforts and say, "wow it looks good over there now."

But rather "power" or the potential lack thereof if a politician in Fairfax City lost was the only world this Vienna Council member could see. THAT is what we are dealing with. It is careerist v. citizen legislators and Vienna has ALL careerists only interested in sitting in THEIR seats.

Having a conversation with you, Anne, a design professional would only help ultimately lose power for them because they would no longer have codes and laws that kept people uneasy and fearful. Whether your efforts or a conversation with you made Vienna a better place is so irrelevant to them its almost unfathomable.

Sad, but true.

AND as of right now Vienna is run by a voting block of octogenarians who no longer pay attention to the outside world (they do know if its Tuesday milk day at Magruders and that is about it, sorry, that's damn near accurate), nor do they have the skill to know redevelopment or planning. But every year that there are challengers Maud pulls out the high rise fear rhetoric and they pull in their votes and any and all good ideas are snuffed out. Then vision-less lemmings (always with a connection to Vienna government) come on to this site and speak to how the qualified candidates (those being the candidates who love power and hate achievement) won...and Vienna is "saved".

The great thing about the May elections is that they opened a window on the process of politics in Vienna. It's not just the election silliness, or freedom of information requests, or sign ordinances, or the historic district, its all of it...and its all nuts. In the end it will probably not be an election that changes Vienna, but rather it will probably be some type of outside intervention when the current Council crew crosses the line and goes so far arrogantly out of bounds that the outside world takes notice. That is why they hate this site so - we bring the outside world in to their tea party.

When I drive down Maple Ave, at 1st glance, it seems that many of the businesses/chains (Shell, 7-eleven, Chevy Chase) have NOT altered the color, wording or logos of their signs. The only noticeable difference is in the size and placement. So when you say that the town restricts color, words and logos, are you referring to all businesses? I've seen Red signs too (gasp)!

I do see some validity to restricting size and placement of signs (Reston imposes similar requirements for "low profile" signs that "minimize intrustion" and "prevent glare" see http://www.reston.org/Design_Review/design_images/PDF/Proptype/Comm/Signs.pdf). Should there be no limits to size and location? What kinds of asthetics are we going for here - towering neon billboards in Vienna?

HV, you've summed it up perfectly. It amazes me that people can be involved in an ANY activity for so many years and not gain any skills, nor even want to gain any. there are so many opportunities to learn from other jurisdictions, but their agenda goes no further than holding on to their positions, so they'd rather not know. ignorance is certainly bliss for them.

EVS, the point is that Vienna has no written rules and it shows. So with no written rules they jerk people around for power. Not a hard concept to grasp. Not really in dispute.

I say again, why can't staff approve sign applications based on accepted parameters? Isn't that their job? Why do we need a board which only imposes its own likes? You must attend their meetings to understand the problem that these people create for businesses.

HV,

In a way, I was agreeing with your post in terms of inconsistent application as it seems larger businesses don't seem to have to change the color, logos, and wording in their commercial signs. Is the real issue that there are no rules or that the rules are vague and ambiguous or open things up to subjective interpretation? Think you have to distinguish.

Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't there rules in the town code as to size, height and location of signs (ref. Chapter 18, Article 19, Signs)? http://www.viennava.gov/Town_Departments/PZFORMS/1SUMMARY_SIGNS.pdf

The rules may be flawed for sure. Not that it matters so much, but Vienna isn't alone in that regard. If you look at the Reston Association guidance for commercial signs, they say colors should be "subdued". If you read the Post's Fairfax Extra section today, they talk about the Tauxemont historic district's "incentives to make renovations conform with the community's character". Sounds familiar doesn't it?

The Commercial ARB, which approves all that is commercial, from signs to building design, has no rules. The code ONLY says, if everyone will recall, that design can't be 'garish'. Said another way, the word garish allows them to make it up on the fly and jerk around people they don't like and reward buddies. They know it is a sick and perverse system, they know it allows them to be dishonest bullies, but that is their makeup.

their signage rules seem pretty "arbitrary and capricious" to me... exactly what governments AREN'T allowed to impose. what do you lawyers say?

Okay, so you're saying the ARB doesn't follow Town Code? Design is referenced in a different chapter, right? I only read Chapter 18 and the summary on signage. It speaks to size, placement,structure, illumination, etc., but those aren't "rules"? Think that there are some allowances for temporary signs (remember the Church St. Cellar's banner?) and the Town is within it's rights for "municpal" signs for public parks (e.g. Town Green), according to that code.

From your videos & posts, I realize they give folks a hard time about things they really don't have a right or basis to ask about (like color). That, I agree is wrong and needs to be corrected, but...I still don't buy your "no rules" claim.

The ARB can't follow Town Code for design, color, etc. as there are no written rules except the word "garish". Do you understand what the issues are here? Try and understand without changing the subject.

Why are you so hell bent on giving the Town credit for something in terms of "rules" when their obvious omission of basic design guidelines, etc. brings into question their whole process (and fyi, we are talking the subjective rules they are employing, not stuff like sign width, RS-10 lots, or lot coverage %...and you surely know that).

You seem to be the type who would give a known burglar credit for being a good parent...and then keep harping on the parenting skill while ignoring the robbing. This is standard issue Chewbacca defense.

You're the head Wookie here. This post wasn't about design and color, it spoke to signs. I spoke to signs, found rules and simply disputed your claims. Whenever you're wrong you flame and divert and go off topic of the actual post.

Not hell bent, either. I just get annoyed and like to call you out when you frequently mistate, misquote, exaggerate, try to make vague and misleading connections and flat out false claims.

You're the one that's hell bent on discrediting absolutely EVERYTHING this town does. I very rarely see any positive posts here. Anyway, if everyone always agreed with you, this sight would be boring. Look how much fun you've just had with Steve Rigby and Adam over the last few weeks.

The burglar reference is silly...

The discussion since inception of this site is not about measurements actually defined in law, but rather about the parts that are undefined. Most people get that. Do you care to define any of your accusations with specifics? Or is today your rhetoric day?

Align yourself with Steve Rigby and Adam S.? Ok, your choice, no matter how odd.

"I just get annoyed and like to call you out when you frequently mistate, misquote, exaggerate, try to make vague and misleading connections and flat out false claims."

Examples of this would be:

1. Bukont's meltdown?
2. Seeman lying about letters and other assorted goodies on this site?
3. Seeman and Robinson's use of Tom Seeman for campaigning even though he makes racist statements?
4. The historic district issues?
5. The recent election shenanigans?
6. The complete lack of organized development on Maple Avenue?
7. The lack of traffic solutions?

And on and on...is this the EVERYTHING you refer to? Why are you worried about the fact that Vienna might look bad over the specific actions by specific people on specific issues? Why don't you help to clean this stuff up instead of saying we are not allowed to point out the idiocy and hypocrisy of it all?

It's pretty clear Jane Seeman and Maud Robisnon are not exactly good leaders or good people. Their questionable ethics and morals, seen clearly in their lust to use power against Vienna citizens who don't kiss their feet is frankly sick.

The ONLY reason you could possibly defend them, and your defense involves saying that a criticism of them and their cronies is a rip against Vienna, is that you consider them friends or associates. Why else?

Give it up EVS you can't win in here.

Give it up EVS you can't win in here.

You are right, when it comes certain politicians in town and their arbitrary rule, there is no middle ground. I will never concede to you that Maud Robinson is good for Vienna.

I never stated or claimed Maud was good for Vienna. What that has to do with the town code for signage is beyond me. Of course I should of considered all the arguments since the inception of this site before commenting on this topic. I could care less how Maud or Jane look - I don't know them. If I'm defending anything - it might be something some of call, um, the truth!? To make false claims that there are no rules (about signage) or Maud and Jane are "racists" or "hookers and gangs" have overrun the Wolftrappe motel, recycling bins are wasteful and dangerous, "there are no sidewalks", the Vienna Inn will be torn down, I need a bullet proof vest to do my banking, the Town Green is costing gazillions, MWHCA is a "mob", roads aren't being repaired, etc., etc. are all hype, stretches, exaggerations, etc., but are not necessarily true! EVERYTHING that the town does is BAD (gee and you complain when folks say the same about this site). I really must be blind to all the horrific evils and "illegal" activities that are supposedly ruining my town because I don't think it's things are that bad. Hey, your tactics suit your needs and further your cause and arguments - that's cool (it's your blog). So what's wrong with disagreeing with some of your statements - you and 99.9% of the posters on this sight certainly put me in my place and give me the business everytime I do.

Why don't I help clean this stuff up? I might ask you the same question of you as I don't consider this site, your stalkarazzi candids, your endless FOIA requests, your lawsuits, a constructive or positive way to go about it, myself.

P.S. please give the rants about color, wacko Tom and Bukont using a curse word (gasp) after you annoyed him so much you nearly made his head explode.

P.P.S. I wasn't aligning myself with Steve or Adam either, just pointing out that (right or wrong) they're one of the very few that at least have an opposing view or opinion. Those who do really appreciate the way you welcome us with open arms.

Kisses

Why don't I help clean this stuff up? I might ask you the same question of you as I don't consider this site, your stalkarazzi candids, your endless FOIA requests, your lawsuits, a constructive or positive way to go about it, myself.

Lawsuits filed to force the Vienna Town Council to obey the US Constitution are a good thing. How can you argue with a straight face that effort doesn't help to clean up things? Further, no citizen complains about FOIA requests. Those are rights we have under VA law and if you knew how actively Vienna works to "hide" documents, you would never say such things. Clearly, you have a connection to Vienna government. This little ole Vienna average resident routine is transparent.

Clearly you're wrong - I have no connection at all. The closest thing I have to it is being a VYS & PTA volunteer. Pump up your cause by claiming your Constitutional rights have been so egregiously violated. Seems more to me that you want out of what amounts to a homeowners association gone bad and your pissed because the ARB asked you to reveal your fence color? What's the deal with those lawsuits anyway? It's been years...and why not leave it to the courts.

FOIA is a good thing, but you abuse it because your FOIA requests have revealed little in terms of scandal or illegal activity. What they do reveal are "shenanigans" and the fact that the Town Council is thoroughly annoyed by you. It's quite funny seeing you get their goats or on their last nerve as you squawk at meetings "whats the color pallette" over and over like a mental patient. Bet you're a conspriacy theorist too, because your rants and raves (and Maud flier) really seem to go over the top and remind me of those Linden Larouche nut cases at the Metro who spew their diatribes and hand out their manifestos. Do you really believe that there's this covert alliance that rallies around some 90 year old lady?

Couldn't you use your time more wisely by helping the community in some other way? I'm sorry, I just don't buy into it all.

Pump up your cause by claiming your Constitutional rights have been so egregiously violated. Seems more to me that you want out of what amounts to a homeowners association gone bad and your pissed because the ARB asked you to reveal your fence color? What's the deal with those lawsuits anyway? It's been years...and why not leave it to the courts.

It is in the courts, so its not a matter of "leaving" it there. The best people to ask the status of the cases would be the Vienna Town Council, their attorney and their outside law firm paid with your tax dollars. So do you like the idea that you are paying outside attorneys for something that you admit has "gone bad"? Care to tell us what has gone bad and why it has not been fixed by the Vienna Town Council?

And so we understand, while its in the courts we also lose our free speech first amendment rights to even discuss it? That makes no sense. "Pump up your cause" you say? What other cause would it be than Constitutional?

FOIA is a good thing, but you abuse it because your FOIA requests have revealed little in terms of scandal or illegal activity. What they do reveal are "shenanigans" and the fact that the Town Council is thoroughly annoyed by you.

How or why would you know "they" (which is the supposedly open government by the way) are "annoyed". They are the government you fool, they are not some "friend" of yours. They have certain obligations under State and Federal law - and they are not meeting them. CLEARLY these people are either your "friends" or "associates", who else would talk so "personal" about a government?

Do you really believe that there's this covert alliance that rallies around some 90 year old lady?

Maud Robinson runs Vienna with an iron fist. You can try and pass her off as a helpless little old lady, but she is a political animal. Tom Davis, his wife, the County Supervisor - they all know what the deal is in Vienna.

Bet you're a conspriacy [sic] theorist too, because your rants and raves (and Maud flier) really seem to go over the top and remind me of those Linden Larouche nut cases at the Metro who spew their diatribes and hand out their manifestos.

Our manifesto of open and honest government is a bad thing?

Couldn't you use your time more wisely by helping the community in some other way? I'm sorry, I just don't buy into it all.

Clearly, even when much of what we are talking about is exposed, you won't care. Recent election nonsense? You probably could care less. Great, that you are on the PTA, but other people, like many of those on this site, are interested in rooting out government corruption and idiocy. Patience.

Either the government is open and available to ALL its constituents or it's not.

FOIA exists just so the government cannot hide. You call it "shenanigans" while others might call it "lying." I bet you're annoyed that those pesky CIA "shenanigans" just came to light through FOIA. All those wacky assassination attempts!

I know why FOIA exists and said it was good thing. It's intent wasn't to have some nutjob asking for every scrap of paper that's issued or produced in the guise of trying to uncover what amounts to a whole lot of nothing. What have these requests produced really in material terms? Jane "lying" to avoid further harranging by Mr. HV? Boy that's really on the same scale as CIA assasination attempts, huh?

In terms of your Constitutional "cause", I would concede that The Constitution protects its citizens’ property rights broadly and generally. However, aren’t a citizen’s property rights subject to the State’s and/or municipality’s power and authority? In this case the Town’s authority to “preserve” that area. As part of its Historic District, the Town incorporated a quasi-judicial mechanism via the ARB, a set of codes, etc. that must be followed when determining whether to allow alteration, removal, etc. of homes in the district.

There are those who would say that when you bought into the district you bought into those codes and so-called “arbitrary” rules and in some ways signed away your Constitutional rights. Also, still don’t understand how you didn’t look at the code or didn't notice the flaws BEFORE you moved into the district. Granted you might have been hard pressed to find a disclosure like, "Warning - when you buy a home in the Historic District, you are agreeing to give up your Constitutional Rights".

I believe that the Town is within its rights and what really needs to be challenged and fixed are the (flawed) codes or guidelines that they use and try to enforce?

Nuff said. I must comment now about the 50 people I saw dancing and listening to music at the Town Green last week or the kids playing catch with their Dad one weekday night, or the guy I saw reading a book on the bench, all apparently invisible to the HV and Town Green haters...

However, aren’t a citizen’s property rights subject to the State’s and/or municipality’s power and authority? In this case the Town’s authority to “preserve” that area. As part of its Historic District, the Town incorporated a quasi-judicial mechanism via the ARB, a set of codes, etc. that must be followed when determining whether to allow alteration, removal, etc. of homes in the district. There are those who would say that when you bought into the district you bought into those codes and so-called “arbitrary” rules and in some ways signed away your Constitutional rights. Also, still don’t understand how you didn’t look at the code or didn't notice the flaws BEFORE you moved into the district. Granted you might have been hard pressed to find a disclosure like, "Warning - when you buy a home in the Historic District, you are agreeing to give up your Constitutional Rights".

People should feel bad for you. You have no concept of the law or logic, which makes any further debate pointless. Most likely in your "world" your ramblings sound smart.

you go EVS. But be careful before someone finds out your name, and starts posting pictures of your house and family and issuing vague threats. Nice neighbors!!

you go EVS. But be careful before someone finds out your name, and starts posting pictures of your house and family and issuing vague threats. Nice neighbors!!

See EVS, your "world", drunk on Kool-Aid, is here to add support!

No Rules...ramble...Kool-Aid..quote last post... Chewbacca...Bukont cursed....ramble, Maud is evil, ramble.

Your world seems a lot more confused than mine...

So dads didn't play catch with their kids prior to the Town Green? Last I checked, EVERY time I ride by Waters or Caffi, I see kids out on the fields.

But, those 55 people you mention make the money worth it? I go to Glyndon Park nearly 2x per week - why don't you sing its praises daily. It's a park - I like it. My life would still be just fine if it suddenly disappeared.

Vienna Mommy,

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My point was that the TG is in fact being used. Waters and Caffi are athletic fields, so of course you'll see kids playing catch there. Seems you're saying you wouldn't mind if any/all parks and green space disappeared? That would explain why you don't care about the TG. By the way, how many folks visit Glyndon each day? If less than 55, should we rail against it and claim that it's a waste or that it's lost revenue for the town? Why not assess all the other town parks and make the same claims. By the way, I saw another 50+ folks @ the TG Friday eve and afterward a biker, a couple walking their child, a family sitting on a blanket by the Freeman house. This begs the question - how many people need to visit/use the park to justify it's existence? I bet if 500 people visited it each day, you'd still find ways to criticize and call it a failure.

So EVS what does one do when they see continual egregious behavior by the government? run away? Nothing changes? What would get you interested, concerned and even involved? It sure isn't the rising gangs, traffic, lack of sidewalks, rising taxes... Do you "like" these people so much personally that you can not or will not look at their shortcomings? They have been in power for how long and what has gotten done? A Town Green? Yippee!!!!

you go EVS. But be careful before someone finds out your name, and starts posting pictures of your house and family and issuing vague threats. Nice neighbors!!

Back up your claims here Neighbor, rather than inflammatory remarks. Vague threats really now who is the conspirists? Tsk Tsk. Pictures are of public officials, or people who put themselves in the public eye. Understand the difference. How about the negative lies of the whisper campaign against the challengers in the recent election? Or doesn't that matter? Lying I mean? Go sit by the pool and read your "People" magazine.

As pointless as it is, all I've ever stated is that I simply don't agree with all of the claims and don't think the behavior is as egregious as you do.

I think you constantly misrepresent or overstate some of the issues here. Traffic is a real problem, but what's your innovative solution (opening up Church St)? If you have one (outside of building more roads) the entire DC Metro area would be happy to hear about it. "Rising" gangs - gosh you seem to use that scare tactic daily as if Vienna will soon be South Central L.A. Isn't the county working to address some of the gang issues? Have you encountered gangs in downtown Vienna? Has you child been jumped on his/her way to school? Oh, and enough with the "no sidewalks" claim. I recall citizens in one SW neighborhood petitioned for for a sidewalk and they got one. There are certainly areas that really need sidewalks, but that doesn't mean there are NO sidewalks. Let's mention the "crumbling roads" again too. I don't see the roads in the same state of disrepair that you do and couldn't tell you the last time I even hit a pothole in Vienna - but have noticed some regular repairs in NW along with the major projects on Branch, Beulah, etc.

Sure, the town and it's reps. have their shortcomings. Things could always be done better, but overall, I'm pretty happy living in Vienna. There's so much I love about Vienna - schools, youth programs, shop and eat in town almost exclusively, use the parks, enjoy all of the Town events, etc. So I won't run away and guess will I'll keep living as you say, in my own little world w/my head in sand, sipping my Kool-Aid w/rose colored classes and all.

P.S. What keeps you in Vienna?

EVS, perhaps you can add to your views that Vienna citizens give up their rights when they live in Maud the Fraud's no rules historic district? There is something about rhetoric from a nut bag like yourself that soothes the soul.

Gee thanks. You're so loving. At least I'm a happy nutbag. No more views from me. I'm going to put on my bullet proof vest to withdraw some cash at the bank, spend the night with all the whores at the Wolftrappe, sit by myself at the Town Green with the perverts & [gang] homies, then dodge cars on my sidewalk-less walk home where I can read the town newsletter full of my lying/racist Town reps. corrupt actions, which I will then put in my wasteful recycling bin on the edge of the constitutional right infringing Historic District. It seems that both my rhetoric and your hate soothe your soul. I hope you realize your dream of living in a disneyesque Vienna, where everyone/everything is perfect. Who's the nutbag?

EVS..bye :-)