NEWS: Fireworks Injuries at Waters Field

Here is what WTOP reported on its website:

"Families near Vienna Elementary School were enjoying the fireworks show when something went wrong. Seven people, including five children, were hurt, according to Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department. The injuries included head and leg traumas.

'All the fireworks were too low to the ground and they were just going everywhere,' says one woman who was watching the fireworks.'"

From the Post: (July 5) "In Vienna, seven people were injured when a mortar went into the crowd, Fairfax County Fire and Rescue said. An adult was taken by helicopter to the Washington Hospital Center burn unit. Five children and one adult were taken by ambulance to Inova Fairfax Hospital."

WASHINGTON - Fireworks at two separate displays injured 10 people across the metro area Wednesday night.

Families near Vienna Elementary School were enjoying the fireworks show when something went wrong. Seven people, including five children, were hurt, according to Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department. The injuries included head and leg traumas.

Fairfax County fire investigators are still trying to determine what went wrong, according to fire spokesman Dan Schmidt.

"All the fireworks were too low to the ground and they were just going everywhere," says one woman who was watching the fireworks.

Another man says one of the fireworks "went really low and went into the crowd."

One of the children is reported to be an infant, and two of those injured may be in serious condition.

The Vienna show was put on by Pennsylvania-based Schaefer Pyrotechnics. WTOP has requested comment from the compnay but has not heard back from anyone yet.

Who has the liability here?

What was the track record of the firm?

Was anything done yesterday that was reckless or was it purely an accident?

Question the families are surely asking.

Wondering how you're gonna spin this one to be Maud's fault.

Near the end of the show, fireworks went off too low in the launch area. It happened fast, in the dark, and was confusing... not expected:

It appears that the accident that was waiting to happen happened.

Link to the company's website:

http://www.schaeferfireworks.com/

50 people injured by Schaefer Fireworks in 2004 in Pittston, PA?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1165594/posts

I found this article about another locality using Schaeffer & the reason they chose them:

"We had four bidders, and we took the lowest one," township spokesman Ed Higgins said. The winning bid was $7,500 for a 20- to 25-minute display.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/pa/chester/nabes/20070701_Steps_toward_a_safer_Fourth.html

Is this typical for governments? Do just the lowest bidders always win or do other factors count?

I believe Schafer pyrotechnics is liable. Maud is responsible because, even though Schaefer had a good safety record, they did approve the contract.

Seriously, though, what seemed to happen (from my vantage point) is that one shell went off low, sending sparks into the other unlaunched shells, which then misfired. The crews from Schaefer were running for cover. I am sure this will be the last time Vienna uses Schaefer....

OSHA fines fireworks company for safety violations in Pittston during July 4 display:

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14087455&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416046&rfi=6

More:
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=32395

All outside contractors hired in Vienna for ANYTHING (roadwork, sidewalks, etc.) are all the lowest bidders. Common practice. Not sure if a common practice in all neighboring localities, but NOTHING in Vienna is ever done for quality reasons. Its always for the low price reason.

Was there possible reasons to not use Schaefer to begin with? The personal injury attorneys will want to know.

Wondering how you're gonna spin this one to be Maud's fault.

The evidence is not all in. But if this firm had a track record of problems (which they did) and if we hired them cause they were the low cost bidder, WHO is responsible?

IMHO the problem is the lack of foresight. Vienna fireworks were moved from Glydon Park because of safety reasons. The waters field site was initially sparsely attended. As the crowds grew it should have been evident that it too was becoming an unsafe place for the fireworks. There were problems with fireworks there years ago and the conditions must have been changed to satisfy the fire marshall.

From what I heard this week from Cathy Salgado, director, Vienna Parks and Recreation, was that the TOV was happy to being able acquire a woman who was reportedly set to retire from Fairfax to run the fireworks show this 4th, and Cathy was so happy because this was the first time the TOV had hired a woman to run the show.

I am not being sexist here that's just what I heard. The fact that she had reportedly retired and was reportedly talked into working for Vienna may be worth looking into, but it may be irrelevant. In any event, Cathy should be forthcoming and open to any questions that may prove that we got less than what we should have gotten, especially since peoples lives are at stake.

It really is difficult to respond to "Wondering" in a civil manner when people were seriously injured and all they are worried about is Maud and the TC. Very sad "wondering". Maybe YOU need to get your priorities straight.

http://www.viennava.gov/allagendas/OLD/clerk_agenda19980511.htm

Regular Council Meeting
AGENDA
Town of Vienna, Virginia
05/11/1998 -- 8:00 p.m.

6. CONTRACT FOR JULY FOURTH FIREWORKS DISPLAY
The Council will consider entering into a multi-jurisdictional contract for July Fourth fireworks display with Schaefer Pyrotechnics, Inc. of Strasburg, Pennsylvania, in the amount of $7,500.00.
Bid award approved to Schaefer Pyrotechnics.

I love how people speak without knowing a thing around here.

Lowest Prices in Town - did you even READ the article?? It says Schaefer was the lowest bidder but was chosen because the previous year's higher priced bidder (Lorusso Fireworks of Netcong, N.J.) had an accident in which..."fallen projectile exploded, injuring 15 spectators".

Only goes to show that fireworks are dangerous no matter how much you pay for them and accidents happen. Look at what happened at the mall...

So now what? We cancel the Vienna 4th fireworks after 10 years of holding them w/out incident?

My bet is they do away with fireworks altogether. Remember last year the display was cut way short because sparks went onto Waters. Regardless of the reason I remember reading that the Mayor had questioned even doing fireworks again. That is how the Town deals with problems. Make it go away. So I don't think Vienna will use Schaefer or any other firm again.

Townie: Yes, I did read the whole article - I found it. I was more than curious to read that Schaeffer is a low-bidder AND has serious problems in their past.

And, has it *only* been 10 years without incident? What happened 10 years ago? I don't recall.

Townie is correct. These are explosives handled by trained professionals. Accidents occur and safety precautions are put in place, however there is always the risk of an explosion.

I pray for the speedy recovery of those physically and emotionally injured.

Unfortunately, there is no true way to do a quality assurance check on the fireworks unless you are personally manufacturing them. There could be issues with the black powder lift charge, the weather definitely could have played a factor, as well as many other causes could have contributed.

Why try to place blame on someone first before knowing all of the facts?

After reading articles from the links provided on this blog, it is without question the Town of Vienna's fault for hiring a company with such a bad track record. I feel that the Town Council is unfit to make decisions in our Town. 50 people injured and OSHA fining this company before for improper safety regulations is not enough to keep them from getting the contract. I'm almost afraid that they might hire ex-cons for community center supervisors for our kids. I want to know when enough is enough? There is a lack of regard for safety from this TC and the proof is in.

Thank you pyrotechnician.

Vienna Mommy - from what I understand the fireworks have only been displayed for 10 years in Vienna. No previous accidents.

BTW my comment about not reading the article was not directed at you. You did not READ my response correctly. You're a little too sensitive and defensive but that is the nature of this site.

These are explosives handled by trained professionals. Accidents occur and safety precautions are put in place, however there is always the risk of an explosion.

Why did we fine Schaeffer? Let us count the unprofessional ways ...

$1800 fine each:
• inadequate training for employees
• lack of information on chemical names
• lack of protective equipment
• lack of manufacturer data on the material safety data sheets.
• lack of protective equipment for the face, hands and chest
• employer's failure to assess the workplace to determine if hazards necessitated the use of personal protective equipment.

Schaeffer was also fined for not protecting employees from hazards that were "likely to cause death or serious physical harm to employees." That carried a $4,500 fine.

The last violation relates to the handling of the explosives, in particular mortars that were not secured strongly enough in the event a nearby shell exploded. Fireworks devices were not positioned securely enough to prevent them from tipping over. The company was also faulted for setting up the display too close to Cooper's Seafood House Waterfront Restaurant, a building that lacked fire-resistant construction.

I love how people speak without knowing a thing around here.

You're a little too sensitive and defensive but that is the nature of this site

OK, let's discuss.

Schaefer also provided fireworks last night at a second location in Vienna, the Westwood Country Club.

Put aside culpability for second (that will come and probably quickly) and let's thank first responders. Clearly we were prepared with appropriate fire and rescue there. That makes our point all the more that we should never have Gomer and Goober patrolling Viva Vienna (or any other Town function). If "something" happens we need appropriate people there, not two old ladies pretending to be security.

Townie to your comment that Westwood also used Schaeffer, does that mean 1 out of 2 is a good safety record? Foolish point.

Posted by: Townie

I love how people speak without knowing a thing around here.

Very ignorant statement Townie because I think the facts are in. 50 people injured by Schaefer Fireworks in 2004 in Pittston, PA? and fined by OSHA thats not enough.

Posted by: A pyrotechnician

Townie is correct. These are explosives handled by trained professionals. Accidents occur and safety precautions are put in place, however there is always the risk of an explosion.

Handled by trained professionals with a bad track record, so that makes it alright.

I personally think that the both of you did not read a single one of the entries or did you read any of the articles. The facts are in and the TC made a bad decision by contracting a company with a poor record of safety for citizens and there own employee's.

So hey only have been holding displays for 10 years?!
And you say: So now what? We cancel the Vienna 4th fireworks after 10 years of holding them w/out incident?
Nice lying by omission!

Being a true "townie," I will state for the record, I can't remember a time that Vienna did not have fireworks on the 4th of July. Of course, this is just my knowledge of about 30 of my 35 years.

This whole thing has scared the pants off me and all the other moms I've talked to today. One neighbor told me her friend was there and described the scene as "gory."

I pray to God that the families involved will all be OK.

Townie to your comment that Westwood also used Schaeffer, does that mean 1 out of 2 is a good safety record? Foolish point.

HV - I was providing information for your readers. Nothing [Don't] between [put] the [words] lines [in my mouth]. As you do for others.

What happened last night was truly sad. We saw the rocket fly into the crowd. I pray for those injured and I'm thankful for the response of the FD.

Town Concerned for Injured Spectators

Town of Vienna officials have expressed their concern for those injured at last night's July 4th fireworks display. "We are all deeply distressed that what has always been an enjoyable family event ended so disastrously, and we are keeping the injured spectators and their families in our prayers," said Mayor Jane Seeman. The Town is working with the Fairfax County Fire Marshal's Office on its investigation into the accident.

I'm curious to see what the other bidders looked like. Because if they all had track records similar to Schaefer's (and, indeed, if track records like Schaefer's are not uncommon in the pyrotechnics industry), then the town council might have made the right call by going for the company that saved the most tax money. If, however, it was known that this company was unsafe and that there were other options that were safer and the town council went with the cheap, unsafe option anyway, I think they've set themselves up for a lawsuit. For several lawsuits, really.

From Dave Statter's site now updated:

9News Now photographer Ryan Hunter and reporter Nancy Yamada were at the Vienna fireworks display when the problem occurred near the finale of the show. On the videotape Hunter shot, you can see fireworks shooting across the ground toward the crowd while other fireworks make it into the air. You are also able to see what appear to be workers handling the display running with flares in their hands toward where the shells are firing across the ground.

Among the injured seen on the tape are children. There were 5 children and two adults hurt, according to Fairfax County Fire & Rescue officials. The injuries were considered serious for one of the children and one of the adults. This includes the adult who was flown by helicopter to the burn unit at the Washington Hospital Center. The others were taken by ground to Inova Fairfax Hospital.

The fireworks in Vienna were provided by Schaefer Pyrotechnics, Inc. of Ronks, Pennsylvania. STATter 911 has learned that Schaefer was involved in a July 4th, 2004 incident in Pittson, Pennsylvania. The company was fined $8100 by the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) after at least 24 people were hurt. That mishap was blamed on a faulty explosive. OSHA discovered 7 violations. More details can be found in this 2005 article from the Times-Tribune of Scranton.

Schaefer also provided fireworks last night at a second location in Vienna, the Westwood Country Club.

STATter 911 contacted Schaefer Pyrotechnics and was told there would be no comment about the incident in Vienna or the previous problem in Pittston.

OH!! I get it now!! DUH!!!

vienna mommy = Lowest Prices in Town = frustrated, etc. LOL that's how the game is played!! Ingenious! Talk about lying...but it's a white lie, right? Nothing compared to the TOV.

Oh, Townie, I wish I could impersonate 10 different people at once. Sorry, even I am not that clever.

HV's friend AS knows who I am (as do a few others).

Here's a Vienna family home made video on Channel 7.

http://dynamic.wjla.com/watch?s=wjla&i=436746

years ago I attended the Vienna fireworks & found them way too scary. there isn't enough space anywhere in town to shoot off fireworks, in my opinion. Instead, we go down to the mall for "real" fireworks. Living so close to the best, why wouldn't you?

I found this "safety tip" on American Pyrotechnics Association's website. I don't go down to Waters Field for the fireworks but I'm pretty sure people are not 500 feet away at minimum.

How can we best enjoy a fireworks display? Here are a few tips to help you maximize your enjoyment of a public fireworks display:

• Don't get too close. Sitting at least 500 feet from the fireworks provides the best view of the show.

http://www.americanpyro.com/Safety%20Info/faq.html

If you think about the size of the area, and the volume of people, it's probably not a good idea having fireworks, period. I've thought that at previous Vienna 4th celebrations, but the lure of summer tradition is strong. Unfortunately, it takes an accident to wake people up sometimes, myself included.

I do find it distressing that it took so short a time for people to start assigning blame on this site. All I can think about are the injured and their families, and how close my son and I came to that same danger. I'd like to thank the Vienna Volunteer FD, the VPD, and all the EMTs from surrounding jurisdictions for their professionalism and quick response. They worked while most of us played and did their jobs well when the call came.

WTOP just reported that several other "misfires" happened in Fx area in shows set up by this company and they suspect that the fireworks manufacturered in China may have been faulty. - Don't shoot the messenger, I'm only repeating what I heard on the radio....

I do find it distressing that it took so short a time for people to start assigning blame on this site.

It actually seems to have been a good back and forth about the issues at hand so far. We are sure the parents of that baby are assigning blame somewhere and fast. And let's be real, there are going to be several groups held financially accountable, that is not hard to see.

Schaefer link.

We are sure the parents of that baby are assigning blame somewhere and fast.

From WTOP:

Officials say the site in Vienna was inspected twice before the show.

"We know that they've been around here a long time. They've had a pretty good record," Schmidt says about the company.

[the person quoted is the Fairfax Fire and Rescue Spokesman]

WTOP updated article.

A MOM RECALLS BLOOD, CHAOS Times Leader, The (Wilkes Barre, PA) (July 9, 2004) Article ID: 103CEAE06F33CBDD PLAINS TWP. - Expectant mother Sara Miller had just moved her young son off her lap and tucked her legs up in front of her while seated on the ground when fireworks debris tore a hole in her left leg.

Five-year-old David was not hit, but his mother lay on the ground. "There was blood everywhere. It was squirting out like a faucet," Miller said Thursday from her hospital bed.

Spectators in the Bruno's supermarket parking lot in Pittston rushed to help Your search terms appear times. Buy: Complete Article, 695 words ( )

Reenactment:

Jane: Schaefer looks to have some problems?

Maud: Jane you ignorant [expletive deleted]. Everyone uses Schaefer, that's the cover if there is ever a problem.

Jane: Good point Mrs. Robinson.

My best wishes go out the families that had anyone injured in the 4th celebration. I don't understand CspanInVienna being so distressed that people are placing blame in such a short time. First off we have doctors taking care of the people injured in the event and secondly I would be very concerned if the VFD didn't respond quickly because it happened in there parking lot and within a 100 yards of them. Yes, they did and excellent job as well. As far as placing blame there is blame to place and that is the Town of Vienna for hiring a company with a track record of injuring people and being fined by OSHA. It is the Town's due diligence to check out any company that they intend to hire for any event, so if you are wondering why people are placing blame so fast here is your answer. With any event that has some kind of mishap there needs to be a report showing what caused the problem and how we can fix the problem, so that people and their families do not get hurt.

There is the question of this site placing blame for the mishap of 4 July. Note that Wondering in effect challanged comments on the possiblity that "Maud" has some responsibility in this case. I too would like to commend the FD for doing their job, also wish to reflect my appreciation for the fact that a helicopter could land in Vienna. I also take note of the fact that respect is being shown for the injured. No one is attempting to identify the persons but all express sympathy. It could have been anyone of us.

Has anyone ever noticed that Jane & Maud are never anywhere to be seen when these fireworks, election, etc. crap happens in TOV? Always like Bush & New Orleans.

This is not an attempt to assign blame, but a question of ability to lead.

So a bunch of people, including little kids, get hurt in a tragic accident. And your response is to post a phony "reenactment" (i.e., more of your usual lies) to try to turn their tragedy into a petty little victory over people you have a grudge against. Pathetic and shameful.

Don't worry MAUDITES..... We all know that even if we had pictures of MAUD chucking grenades into the crowd you all would still think that this website was spinning the truth. Ain't that right Steve "Wavy Gravy" Rigby?

Nobody is to blame. Lets take no action. See ya next year at Waters Field!

That's right "what's the point" let's put our heads back in the sand and ask no questions. Very responsible of you! (This is truly the wisdom of TC or the Gazette here).

People were injured and YOU don't think there is a responsibility to ask 1) what happened, 2) could this have been avoided and 3) what can be done in the future? Where else are you going to find ANYWHERE in Vienna these questions being asked???

Look.. We did the same background check on Schaefer Fireworks that we did on the prison tatt'ed ride operators at Viva Vienna.

Hey Chewie, how about responding to something I actually said, instead of making up a bunch of nonsense and acting like I said it? Or is the problem that you know that your behavior is digusting and indefensible, so you just have to slander and lie?

So how many reasons do we now have to fear that Vienna homeowners won't have 2 nickels left to rub together? We have the lawsuits regarding the Town's illegal activity with the Historic District. Lord knows what will happen about the Gestapo tactics at the May election. And now we have Gomer and Goober cheerfully re-hiring the fireworks company so heavily fined by OSHA. Anyone care to buy a nice rambler in SW Vienna?

This is not an attempt to assign blame, but a question of ability to lead.

Has there ever been any true leadership in Vienna...?

Nope.

Did you see mayor Boob Seeman on the news? Could she have sounded more like someone who was trying to pretend nothing happened.

Having treated serious injuries in the ER from fireworks, I have the deepest sympathy to those families who were hurt.

You all want to place blame on someone so much you are blinded by the real problem here: The TOV has repeatedly made the decision to provide a community service for you to see a real nice 4th of July Fireworks display. What is their responsibility? What is the standard of safety?

I hear the news putting blame on the manufacturer: China.

I hear the TOV putting the blame on the provider: Schaefer Pyrotechnics, Inc. of Ronks, Pennsylvania.

The blame lies in not having them fired in a place where you can assure that given the worst case outcome, no-one would get hurt, not in a small confined space in a little town with many families too close for safety. Whether or not the TOV followed some legal or assigned "safe distance" is of absolutely no consequence when someone gets hurt or killed. When will this town realize if they are going to play like they are big boys, their going to have to take the same responsibilities. Product liability is very clear to have some sort of idea of worst case scenarios and provides blame to any entity failing to safeguard against harm, regardless of legal contracts and the letter of the law.

In a town with little or no true leadership, they will have a tough time in court over this, unless the Judge allows for government immunity.

That's why I watch with my family and friends from a distance equally as far away as the height these bombs and missiles fly so as to prevent any serious injuries. Is the TOV to blame? Damned right they are.

The point is, we all want our children to grow up without having to learn that our own government would rather provide a service without thinking of safety and prevention.

Would you let your child stand by a busy street with trucks going by at 35-50 mph day after day? The chances of serious injury or death is small, but when it happens, those statistics are meaningless when it's your child or loved one.

Just like the gentleman, Dave Marsden, who was run down by the construction truck while waiting for the traffic to clear on his bike.

Accidents should be prevented, not ignored until they happen.

My deepest sympathies and prayers.

As I see it, the Town has annually organized a fireworks event that does not establish a safe setback beyond the distance these rockets can travel. It has always been unsafe, risky, and scary. The current setback assumes that a rocket will never error and travel horizontally. This is clearly an unsafe assumption that puts the viewing public at risk of serious injury and death. This year they closed most of the fire station parking lot, encouraging many to move in closer.

I believe the Town is directly responsible and liable for the public safety at this event, and that Waters Field (now made of plastic and rubber) is not a safe venue for a fireworks display of this size. The primary difficulty at Waters Field is that a safe and proper setback distance conflicts with the surrounding trees, poles, buildings, and streets.

Also, dogs, toddlers, and definitely infants should not be taken up close to fireworks shows since they don't seem to like it... too much shock and awe.

From the news:

"The Vienna Town Council awarded the contract to Schaefer a few months BEFORE 50 people were injured in a show the company put on in July 2004 near Scranton, Pa., where fireworks flew toward the crowd instead of into the air. After investigating the incident, the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration levied $8,100 in fines against Schaefer for improperly labeling and storing chemicals and for protective-equipment violations."

What did the TOV do AFTER? Was the accident in PA discussed by TC? Did they question their new agreement? How extensively has the setback issue ever been analyzed?

I hate to sound xenophobic, but the problem seems to lie with extremely poor quality control from Chinese Exports....Across the board. We have poisoned pet food, poisoned sea food, poisoned toothpaste, defective fireworks, etc. As a country, we need to stand up and either require China to ensure the safety of their exported products, or inspect each item as it is imported....

As for the incident...I think we owe a debt of gratitude for the FCFD and VVFD, including Howard Springsteen who helped to transport 2 injured children to Fairfax.

This happened because the Town is run like a garden club. They don't know and don't care about running a responsible government that ensures the safety of the people.

I hate to sound xenophobic, but the problem seems to lie with extremely poor quality control from Chinese Exports....Across the board.

If you are in the business of igniting mortars in the close quarters of families, kids, houses, etc...you can't just blame the mortar construction. You have to blame the people who represented the mortars as safe (assuming Schaefer) and the people who made the decision who hire Schaefer (Vienna Town Council).

I agree with Vienna Hills regarding unsafe practice in China ect..however, ultimately it is the Captain of the Ship who is responsible.

How come there are only complaints and negativism and personal attacks on people on this site? I never read positive contributions or solutions (other than getting rid of Maud).

Call it like it is - can you elaborate on how YOU would have done the 4th celebration differently? How would you handle it more responsibly, that would ensure the safety of the people?

I suppose you'll blame TOV for the fireworks mishaps at all other 4 venues in Fairfax too. After all it was a "multi-jurisdictional contract" contract they signed, right?

What did the TOV do AFTER? Was the accident in PA discussed by TC? Did they question their new agreement? How extensively has the setback issue ever been analyzed?

You mean you don't have it on tape?

This happened because the Town is run like a garden club. They don't know and don't care about running a responsible government that ensures the safety of the people.

I do not think that is fully accurate; similar malfunctions occurred at 4 or 5 other places in Fairfax county...all run my Shaefer...using the same defective mortar. Only in Vienna were people hurt though.

The problem is that the town followed the county fire marshal guideline, which assumes the mortars will launch vertically. The fact that the setbacks were considered ok means the problem is with the county regulations, not the town. I expect the county will change the rules as a result of the incident. I expect the new rules will require a 500 or 1000 foot setback, which may preclude any future show in Vienna (maybe Nottaway Park would be ok, but that is not in the Town).

Fairfax County Fire & Rescue: News Release:

07/05/07

Seven Transported in Fireworks Mishap

Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department units responded to an errant fireworks mortar launch that landed in a crowd at approximately 9:45 p.m., Wednesday, July 4, 2007, injuring 11 spectators at a Town of Vienna fireworks display. The fireworks display was located at 128 Center Street, near the Vienna Elementary School.

Firefighters and paramedics responded within a minute to the injured, triaging, providing medical treatment, and transporting the injured. There were 11 injured; 7 were transported. One adult was medevaced to The Washington Hospital Burn Center. Six were transported to Inova Fairfax Hospital. Two of the seven transported had potentially life-threatening injuries. Five of the seven transported were children. Four patients were treated at the scene. Schaefer Fireworks, Ronks, Pennsylvania, conducted the fireworks demonstration. The display was permitted, inspected, and approved by the Fairfax County Fire Marshal's Office. Three fire inspectors inspected the fireworks display twice on July 4, 2007. All safety and operational requirements were met by Schaefer Fireworks. There were three fire inspectors on hand during the fireworks demonstration.

According to fire investigators, the mishap was accidental. A catastrophic failure occurred in a 25 round, 3-inch mortar. The mortar accidentally launched into the crowd at a low trajectory, injuring spectators.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/fr/news/2007archive/2007_078.htm

You mean you don't have it on tape?

Do you think it is funny that Gomer and Goober tried to ban the taping of public meetings? Do you find it funny that Vienna is the only locality around that doesn't tape? Who else except a Town Council member, their family or friends would write something so asinine?

How come there are only complaints and negativism and personal attacks on people on this site? I never read positive contributions or solutions (other than getting rid of Maud).

Call it like it is - can you elaborate on how YOU would have done the 4th celebration differently? How would you handle it more responsibly, that would ensure the safety of the people?

I suppose you'll blame TOV for the fireworks mishaps at all other 4 venues in Fairfax too. After all it was a "multi-jurisdictional contract" contract they signed, right?

Is that the legal defense the Town will use to not bear a financial burden? In terms of negativism, as of last night two people were in a coma. Is that positive?

Bottom line, it was an accident. However, accidents that could have been prevented often trace to negligence. Attorneys will be looking at negligence issues just like we are on this site. "Officials" calling it an "accident" doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility. Someone in Vienna TOC should stand up and say, "We hired them. Obviously, on the heels of the prior incident, not a good hire. We take responsibility." Not this nonsense of: "Everyone was doing it!"

This happened because the Town is run like a garden club. They don't know and don't care about running a responsible government that ensures the safety of the people.

A problem with the garden club... with any club in which those in power act as if they are soley empowered to chart a course and make all decisions ignorant of those they are elected to represent and to serve, is the culture of subservience that breeds up around them to quelch honest open debate where otherwise should be fostered enlightened thinking, exchange of ideas, and positive change... progress in step with the times. Instead, the club carries on living within its narrow view until suddenly they and we all find ourselves overtaken... blindsided... rocketed by current events. Government needs to be far more open and dynamic than a club will ever allow. Unfortunately, you get what you pay for... if you pay your taxes and then don't vote or vote foolishly, you can not expect good representative government. Vienna's garden club government is sick and can only be fixed by those paying for it. How dare Maud preach to us her personal views on "community identity theft" in our Town newsletter... a term which Google cannot find in this world? Who is she campaigning for now? Rather than co-opt our Town newsletter to espouse her personal preferences, she should be SOLICITING AND EXECUTING OUR COLLECTIVE WILL, leading for all of Vienna. But no, don't expect Maud to visit here anytime soon to ask for your opinion... she's much more comfortable preaching hers to us from her Town Program, our town newsletter.

Can we please deal in facts.

500 feet from the fireworks is not a "safety tip" it's a How can we best enjoy a fireworks display? tip.

Fairfax's Regulatory Guidelines are "A minimum 70' per inch of shell safe area / fallout area shall be established prior to display."
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/fr/prevention/fireworks/fwairdis_guide.htm

I was at the fireworks display at Water's Field, we arrived 1 minute before the National Anthem was played. After the Anthem they anounced that the fireworks would not start until everyone was behind the established perimeter, shortly after that the fireworks started. We were sitting behind the fence at home plate in the ball field closest to the school. Even from a distance you could see something was going wrong and then we saw that rocket fly sideways into the crowd. We heard the screams. This is the closest we've ever sat to see the fireworks and the last. My prayers are still with the families of those injured. And very thankful for the VFD and VPD that responded quickly.

Who else except a Town Council member, their family or friends would write something so asinine?

Point proven...

I could break bread with you in Church tomorrow, be an EMT and save your life tomorrow. Even if I agreed with you I would be against you somehow.

Call it like it is - can you elaborate on how YOU would have done the 4th celebration differently? How would you handle it more responsibly, that would ensure the safety of the people?

Choose a venue and limit the type and size of explosives to respect a safe and practical setback distance. Given the Waters Field venue, I would require a smaller fireworks show. There's good historical reason why fireworks are outlawed in residential areas. Does the Town have a written spec for type and size of fireworks allowed at Waters Field?

Thank you Town Green!! I agree w/ both of your last two posts.

I could be an EMS and save your life tomorrow? Are you God? Or just think so? How absolutely condescending you are!! And it scares the Hell out of me that an EMS even thinks like that. You are part of the club!

I don't get Townie: TG I agree with your last posts. And yet all you do it bash HV at each turn?

Town officials on many occasions voiced the fact that they were elected to act for the public and they had "absolute power". The town wants the "absolute" control of town matters but also matters of the county such as the metro development and Tysons Corner. I suspect that in defense of the Fire Marshall we could suspect that he was pressured to approve the waters field venue. That's the way we always do it.

Why has the Mayor not come out and said already, "No more fireworks at Waters Field. Clearly, we were on borrowed time for all of these years and it is simply too dangerous. If another Mayor wants to support them, fine. But no more on my watch."

She has not said this because if you thought like her it goes something like this: "We can't eliminate fireworks. That's one of the things that makes us a small town! And plus Maud would say no."

Regarding fireworks safety vs. enjoyment. The APA site clearly is talking about the safe enjoyment of fireworks (their words not mine).

http://www.americanpyro.com/Safety%20Info/faq.html

To frustrated: Townie clearly knows who some of the posters on here & will do anything to refute and/or be obnoxious towards. That is why he is coming across as willy-nilly in his agreement/disagreement with various individuals.

I don't bash HV at each turn. I bash the personal attacks on people on this site. I don't like how ass-u-m-sions are made about people's character from a simple posting. Look at what HV said about me when I simply posted information found on a news site. Look at what "not a real MD" said about me, did that make ANY sense to anyone? It doesn't merrit a reply from me!

I like this site. It brings out good issues and if you ignore the slander you can get some good information. You're damn if you do or damn if you don't here, though. Just because I agree with TG's two posts doesn't mean I agree with EVERYTHING he/she posted. I suppose you'll call me wishy washy, flip flop. Whatever! LOL.

I have to wonder why it is that Jane and Maud and the rest of the TC were fine with spending millions on the very elaborate Town Green, yet went with the lowest bidder on the fireworks?

And how are they going to explain their decisions to the family with the burned baby?

That was my question yesterday - is everything about the lowest bidder? Clearly, much of our money went into the town green.

Not, of course, on a fence for safety measures, though.

Call it like it is - can you elaborate on how YOU would have done the 4th celebration differently? How would you handle it more responsibly, that would ensure the safety of the people?

When I was growing up in McLean, we never had any one closer than the distance the missiles would have flown if they were shot towards the crowd at an angle of 45 degrees above the horizon.

Simple enough mathematics. If the TOV had followed these guidelines, no-one would have gotten hurt.

Simple rule, if you are watching the fireworks and you are looking higher than 45 degrees above the horizon to see the bombs explode, you are probably too close for safety.

Of course, there are always the thrill seekers who gamble and sit closer.

The other option is to do what we did out in heavily wooded areas, and have a quarter inch steel wall constructed around the launch site to be constructed in such a manner that if any mishaps pr misfires occur, they are prevented from being launched into the crowds or trees by a specific height whose measurement depends on how close you want to view the show. Very expensive.

Some sites actually launch them from a deep pit, thereby avoiding misfire trajectories into crowds by essentially having the ground act as a protective barrier: same math applies here.

This is why most cities launch their missiles from sites like bridges over rivers and lakes far away from the people who are watching: Boston, Chattanooga, Sydney, San Fransisco, etc. When you are unable to do this, even a half a mile is too close.

Further Reading:

http://www.utdanacenter.org/mathtoolkit/downloads/alg1assess/alg1_4_firework.pdf

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/012.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/spotlite/firework_spot.htm

Here's an explanation of how the accident happened.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/07/china_fireworks.html

How come there are only complaints and negativism and personal attacks on people on this site? I never read positive contributions or solutions (other than getting rid of Maud).
Call it like it is - can you elaborate on how YOU would have done the 4th celebration differently? How would you handle it more responsibly, that would ensure the safety of the people?
I suppose you'll blame TOV for the fireworks mishaps at all other 4 venues in Fairfax too. After all it was a "multi-jurisdictional contract" contract they signed, right?
Posted by: Townie | July 6, 2007 10:16 AM

Townie I don’t think that you make any sense at all. Have you provided any solution besides making remarks about peoples posts on this blog. It’s just like a car accident, it might have been an accident, but someone is liable in the end. Maybe 500 hundred yards might just being a view suggestion, but I think that people being 100 yards away is down right stupid. As a matter of fact the “safest” view distance according to the NCFS is a quarter of a mile or more and since I know you wont read any of this, I will give you the number 440 yards away or more. http://www.fireworksafety.com/tipsdisplay.htm . The Fire Marshall also said in an interview that Schaefer Fireworks company had a good track record (not true). Although I like the convenience of having fireworks in my home town, it comes down to the safety of the people in the community and that was not even considered by The TC or the Fire Marshall who approved it. I will also say this one more time so you understand the VFD did a good job handling the situation, but they had no other option it was less than 200 yards from them. Townie I think you should wipe the brown off your nose that stinks of a VTC friend and think about how you would feel if your TC and Fire Marshall put your family in harms way or your family member was hurt and how you would feel knowing that it could have been prevented.

Did anyone happen to light off an illegal bottle rocket over the holiday? Did anyone happen to have one not take flight and explode right as you lit it? Well, I saw it happen several times. So was it a surprise that a firework malfunctioned? Isn't that the nature of a certain percentage of all fireworks - to not go off correctly? Isn't the "blame the mortar" patently ridiculous? All I know is that if I was still kicking and was representing the injured, there would be a few more held at fault beyond the firecracker.

I don't bash HV at each turn. I bash the personal attacks on people on this site. I don't like how ass-u-m-sions are made about people's character from a simple posting. Look at what HV said about me when I simply posted information found on a news site. Look at what "not a real MD" said about me, did that make ANY sense to anyone? It doesn't merrit a reply from me!

Agreed. I think it is better form to state opinions about or to address issues, not personalities. If you do go there... making personal judgements... you should be prepared to tango and have a sound argument. I see many unconvincing replies of no substance or merit. I would trust the intelligent reader to follow along, to understand, to form their own opinion, and to not need a post-for-post play to know the issue.

Regarding the fireworks mishap... apparently the authorities allow the use of a "cakebox" of multiple mortar tubes in a single assembly. If one mortar misfires and explodes in the assembly, all bets are off... the assembly can tip over, come apart, and any remaining tubes/charges can launch in any direction besides up. So what is the backup for containing an errant cakebox of 12 or more 3" mortars? In Vienna it was '600 pounds of surrounding sandbags'. That's not much sand stacked very high! And obviously it wasn't enough. In Fairfax, perhaps there was no backup containment where a mortar shot out and slammed into Fairfax High School fencing. Cakeboxes of mortars with insufficient containment to prohibit errant mortars from exiting sideways... I'd say everyone (county fire marshalls?) who signed off on this was negligent, particularly with spectators held only 220' (3" mortar x 70' per inch) away. Focusing on China is ridiculous! Fireworks are and should be considered and handled as dangerous explosives at every step of the way. Fireworks misfire ALL OF THE TIME, and are always to be handled accordingly. China may have delivered a faulty product, but that does not release the user from their inherent responsibility to safeguard against a possible faulty product.

ThreeGen I never pretended to have a solution or answer to what happened.

it might have been an accident, but someone is liable in the end. OK, I don't disagree with that. I just think that all facts have to be known in order to identify the correct "someone liable" and to be able to define the correct actions to make things safe at future events. I appreciate you providing the 1/4 mile or more info and I also like the logical thinking Dr. Stich and TownGreen presented. That's what I was looking for.

If I wasn't concerned I wouldn't be asking questions...
Please don't pretend to know ANYTHING about me.

BTW The Fire Marshall also said in an interview that Schaefer Fireworks company had a good track record (not true). OK, so it's not true. You already said The facts are in and the TC made a bad decision by contracting a company with a poor record of safety The Fire Marshall's statement could have been "the company had a good track record [in our area] [with us in the past 10+ years of providing service]" Then the statement would have been true. So what? What is your point? What do you gain or fix from saying something like that? [see I do read your posts :-)]

Welcome to the bogosophere baby/Townie don't cry if people are mean to you that is the nature of this beast, and it is not just on this website it is that way on the majority.

So now what? We cancel the Vienna 4th fireworks after 10 years of holding them w/out incident?(Maybe if best an attempt at a question)

vienna mommy = Lowest Prices in Town = frustrated, etc. LOL that's how the game is played!! Ingenious! Talk about lying...but it's a white lie, right? Nothing compared to the TOV. (Not a question)

Or maybe they are thankful to just be alive and want to forget the whole thing happened and move out of this crazy town! WHO KNOWS??? -dripping sarcasm- (Not a question)
How come there are only complaints and negativism and personal attacks on people on this site? I never read positive contributions or solutions (other than getting rid of Maud). (Maybe your trying to defend a TC that was wrong)
Call it like it is - can you elaborate on how YOU would have done the 4th celebration differently? How would you handle it more responsibly, that would ensure the safety of the people? (The best and only real question you’ve offered)
I suppose you'll blame TOV for the fireworks mishaps at all other 4 venues in Fairfax too. After all it was a "multi-jurisdictional contract" contract they signed, right?(Not a question)
You mean you don't have it on tape?(sarcasm not a question)
500 feet from the fireworks is not a "safety tip" it's a How can we best enjoy a fireworks display? tip. (Is a safety tip according to the NCFS)

Townie I think that from the beginning of this blog that may users have give very good facts, but for some odd reason you don’t consider them facts. You have provided one good question out of multiple in your terms called questions that have provided no benefit at all. Maybe you should go back and read your post and see for yourself that you have provided nothing. Seem to me that you have an agenda to protect a TC that does have the responsibility to protect the citizens of the town and did not do so. I also invite you to go back and read the multiple facts provided in this blog. My point is that this TC is living on the edge at best with there disregard for safety and if you don’t think so maybe you should leave your own child unsupervised at the Town Green with no fence, so they can wonder into 123 which is less than 50 yards from that area. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the TC has safety last on there agenda. If the NCFS says that 440 yards or more is a safe distance they I would most defiantly say the Fire Marshall is responsible as well. Please next time you respond give some meat and potatoes to the blog not just sarcasm.

The Fire Marshall's statement could have been "the company had a good track record [in our area] [with us in the past 10+ years of providing service]" Then the statement would have been true. Posted by Townie

One more thing Townie could have been is only with horseshoes and hand grenades not peoples lives. I love the fact that you even tried to entertain the thought that he might have meant this. Who are you Mrs. Cleo?

Mortar explodes in crowd...

POWER UP MAUDITE DEFLECTOR SHIELDS!!!!
DEFCON 5 BLOGGER PATROL ENGAGE!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
BLAME CHINA!!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
BLAME FAIRFAX COUNTY!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
PROTECT THE BOOBS!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
PROTECT THE QUEEN!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
IGNORE THE FACTS!!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
PRAISE JESUS!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
BLAME THE CONSTITUTION!!!!
HV IS BAD!!!!
BLAME CHINA AGAIN!!!!

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

Duct taping 12 ICBM's to a 2'X4' is not a structurally sound launch pad!

tough skin - au contraire mon ami, no crying here. Have a fun safe weekend everyone!

The Fire Marshall's statement could have been "the company had a good track record [in our area] [with us in the past 10+ years of providing service]" Then the statement would have been true.

Well, that's not what he said, and if that's what he meant, then he should have said that. Because as it stands without any creative editing, his statement is a baldfaced lie. Probably it wasn't a deliberate intent to mislead but rather a lack of information that lead to him saying that, which is kind of disturbing given how quickly other posters here managed to find that information on the internet. I mean, it's his job to know these sorts of things.

where can I buy a souvenir mayor jane seeman {...] teeshirt, or a 2007 queen mad maud hat? I would like an extra large, lime green teeshirt, and a fire engine red hat please...