Vienna Neighbors Form Group to Fight Maud's Foolishness

While I can see where people are uncomfortable with this situation, I have basically seen it from both points of view.

I worked with a couple of people who are here illegally, and they say that the majority of the people in this area are not here to cause trouble - they work, some even actually do pay taxes. There are some people who come here with a Visa and have it expire while they are trying to get their papers in order, and its a shame that that happens because they ARE trying.

As for the gangs, I think that most of the violence that goes on over in that area is more of a latino on latino type violence.

As a young cute girl, I have to say it IS quite irritating to be whistled at and stared at, but whether someone here is illegal or not, theyre going to do it. I get it from old white men too lol.

From talking with a few of the cops in Vienna, most of them will definitely agree that most of the calls they get are from alcohol related disturbances. Unfortunately, you will pretty much get those anywhere. The only other "incident" I have heard of recently (besides the most recent stuff over there) is of some woman pretty much doing prostitution. Its unfortunate, but that was taken care of.

With the day laborers, I personally dont have a huge problem with them. At least they are working. There are plenty of people in the area, hispanic or not, that just need to get off their ass and do something with themselves. Most of these people have 2-3 jobs.

As for overcrowding, it depends on how you look at the issue. A friend of mine who is here legally but does live with some people who are here illegally. Ive been to their place over in Mosby's actually. But what goes on is that there are a couple of bedrooms generally with like 2 or 3 beds in each. The apartments generally arent "overcrowded" because a lot of these people work all day and then work an overnight shift and sleep during the very early morning or during the afternoon.

Just something to think about I guess. Id prefer not to be attacked because I "associate" with "these people" but I have come to realize that a lot of them really are not as bad as we think and are just here to make a living.

Surprisingly, a lot of these people dont plan to stay here forever. Some have wives and kids back in their country that they love and support, so they go back to them.

Thanks for listening :)

As a young cute girl, I have to say it IS quite irritating to be whistled at and stared at,

As an old(er) woman and probably not nearly as cute, I am annoyed that my favorite Chinese food restaurant in the Cedar Lane shopping center is trying to sell their business. I'd hate to see a great business forced to leave due to people not feeling comfortable going there. Their crispy beef is out-of-site.

Forget day laborers, that could be solved to make all sides happy. The key is Vienna leadership's lack of ability to do anything remotely sound and balanced. Why is that?

Simple. Maud Robinson is an ignorant fool in love with herself. Simple problems that would solved in other community are not in ours because we are stuck with an 85 year old nut who runs the ship like Stalin era Soviet Union. Improvement and logic are not her goals, but rather pure power is all she is about. The rest of the Council members, Town Attorney, Town Manager and every other appointed or paid member of Vienna government are there due to her. Either due to economic loyalty or political loyalty, they bend over for her. It is sad and pathetic, but it is what it is. There is a way to change it all. A November election ends it ALL and the old bag knows it, hence her preemptive comments in the local papers about a switch from a May election. Strap on your chin strap Maud, we are all younger than you. Your politcal nuclear bomb is about to be inserted.

Fall elections are the equivalent of a political enema.

Unfortunately, the recent fall election did not purge Fairfax County of that self-righteous gasbag Connolly and his puppet Hudgins.

We should tell all the day laborers that they need to meet at the Vienna Town Green to solicit work. It is a public gathering place, right?

If someone puts that in Spanish on this board, I'll copy the text and personally distribute the flyers to the workers.

HV,

Can you really call the problems associated with day laborers and immigration "simple"? These issues are extremely complicated and have paralyzed communities and lawmakers all over this country. If you know an easy answer to them in Vienna, I'd like to hear it.

....public gathering place

at least then it would have a purpose.

The town green is a better location - close to the industrial area on Dominion and Mill. Perfect.

LOL to "That's the ticket!"

At least it would be used for something then!

dogface,
thank you! these ARE complex issues that demand a hard look at multiple national policies. to think that Maude Robinson and Jane Seeman can solve the problems is ridiculous.

For all those whining that this is too complicated an issue to deal with on a local level: quit being such wussies.

There are things that we can do on a local level. How about actually enforcing our current criminal, business, and zoning laws?

Illegals came to Vienna because we made it easy for them to. Our town council looked the other way while illegals crowded into the Vienna Park Apartments and private homes in South Vienna. At the same time, Vienna businesses and residents were greedily taking advantage of the illegals' status, and paying them tax-free reduced wages to do jobs that Americans would do if you paid them a real wage.

I say congratulations to the Vienna Citizens Group. By exposing this problem and forcing the Town to deal with it, you have demonstrated a bravery that the Vienna Town Council and its various hangers-on will never understand.

While I do understand your point of view "backbone" I did work with some people in a restaurant. They are charged taxes out of their paychecks.

Sometime recently, there was a "strike" or whatever and people were claiming that it didnt hurt the economy. It probably didnt, but it hurt the business. Not because they are greedy, whatever, its because they need the help.

Have you ever tried to run a restaurant with 1 cook?

There is a lot more than appears when it comes to the "illegals" and their non-illegal friends.

Not trying to burn anyone's behind, just letting you know that I have seen both sides!

Minerva,
Just because some of the illegals you worked with had taxes taken out of their paycheck, do you really think that is the case with all illegals? Why do you think those guys are hanging out at the Cedar Lane Shopping Center and the Park. St. 7/11?

You admit that Vienna has illegals, overcrowded apartments, flop houses, and even some prostitution. You even excuse gang crime because you think that it's only "latino on latino."

Then you excuse the hiring of illegals because the restaurants need them to run.

I've got news for you: restaurants ran just fine without illegals up until about 5 years ago in NoVA. And the decline in our quality of life on the South side of Vienna is not worth a cheap burrito to me.

I've got a different perspective. In Fairfax County, there are over 100 young adults with cognitive challenges that are waiting and waiting to be placed in entry level service jobs.

The places that used to hire them have instead hired illegals because it's easier and cheaper.

Nice, huh?

To "With age comes wisdom..."

...in case you havent been watching the news, almost EVERYWHERE has illegals!!

Apparently your age has got the best of you because with youth comes new perspective.

I sure as hell did not make excuses! Pull the cotton off of your eyes! Im pretty sure EVERYWHERE has some sort of prostitution! EVERYWHERE has illegals, and EVERYWHERE has shit houses and overcrowded places.

What are YOU going to do about it besides bitch and moan?

Im pretty sure the reason they hang out there is to get work...in case you didnt notice, most of those people end up doing lawn-care, gardening, and construction!

I also didnt claim that ALL crime over there was latino on latino, I was talking about MOST VIOLENCE. Violence IS a crime, but its not ALL crime. I am of hispanic descent, so dont think I have wool over my eyes.

For you, it sounds like even if you were to move, you wouldnt be happy with anything that you had.

What are you, yourself doing about this issue if it causes such concern besides bitching about it online? Call your HOA or something, call the county offices. If you have so much hated and whatever, do something. Just be careful who you label as illegal here because you may be VERY wrong. And that is VERY unfair.

When are people in this Town going to wake up? We do have a problem with illegal immigrants. They have moved into Vienna in large numbers and the Town has no clue where they are. The Vienna Police are more interested in giving people traffic tickets. Doesn't infuriate anyone to see two or three police at Locust and Old Court House Road laughing and standing around giving out tickets to those very bad people on the way to work when we see the Cedar Lane situation and overcrowding getting very little attention and being made to look like it's not a problem? We have a low crime rate in most of Vienna, not because we have an overstaffed police force, it's because most people are law-abiding. The crime rate would be the same without the Vienna Police. We're only a few square miles of area and the crime rate in the bordering Fairfax County is the same. As for the Town Council, they are incapable of doing anything about the illegal immigrant situation because they can't even govern on the simple-minded stuff. We should impeach everyone and start with a new slate.

I have sympathy for people looking for work, but I do not feel comfortable using the businesses in the mall on Cedar any more. I used to go that CVS. I've been whistled at and had a couple entertaining comments made at me since the day laborer throng has taken up residence there in the lot.

I know that whistling and hooting at girls is what guys do whenever there are large groups of them allowed to loiter and congregate in large numbers. It's not a problem restricted to one group of men because of national origin or ethnicity.
That behavior is one reason why loitering is generally discouraged EVERYWHERE.

I cannot imagine the shopping center owners are happy with the loitering day laborers scaring off their customers, just as some of the immediate neighbors apparently are not happy with it, either. For me, I just won't shop there until the management and the Town deal with the problem.

I had one of my 3x-per-year visits to the laundromat at Cedar Lane today.

I do not fear for my life but it is a little disconcerting to have a cop car patrolling at 9:30am. It does not feel like you're in Vienna anymore at Cedar Lane shopping center.

All that aside, I'd still attend the laundromat to wash my rugs/comforters if the place hadn't become so run-down. I've been going there for over 10 years. It was always clean and nice. Now, they have removed all chairs and video games. I am guessing in an effort to discourage loitering.

What is does is chase away people like me. I had to stand for nearly two hours with two small children who wanted nothing better than a chair.

Essentially, the stores at the shopping center have to make their places as unappetizing as possible to keep people from hanging out. I find this annoying. What used to be a pleasant enough experience is now dirty and uncomfortable.

And, did I mention the Chinese restaurant was trying to sell their business?

"Southern Management are doing a wonderful job. ... They are very aggressive in making sure there's no overcrowding; they have always cooperated with us on that," Schoeberlein said.

GIVE ME A BREAK... Southern Management has the town managers completely BAMBOOZLED!!! If we could have a little less "cooperation" and a LOT more "GOVERNING" this town wouldn't be going-to-pot... get your heads-out-of-the (fill-in-blank)

As Ive said before, I know a lot of the Vienna cops, so next time I have a chance to chat with them, Ill ask them about the Cedar Lane situation and let you all know what I find out.

I have a suspicion that the police kind of have their hands tied. I dont think that they can really enforce the laws that pertain to overcrowding and what not. I will ask though.

They do give parking tickets to the people who live on Patrick street over behind the Cedar Lane shopping center...the residents there like to park in front of the fire hydrants.

To "Miss Thing": I can definitely understand your concern. Im turning 20 in December, and as a young girl, I get the irritating whistles and chatter too. Its really annoying, but what I have found is that they generally do it because they "know" that we'll ignore them.
I just stare at them back. LOL. They dont tend to like that, but that is their problem. Its uncomfortable to stare back at men being gross, but for me, it works to get them to leave me alone. I also speak a little bit of spanish and know how to tell them to shut their mouths in a very vulgar way that would make anyone shut up LOL.

I will say, as far back as I remember, I do recall seeing people gathered around that area all the time. Ive seen more than there used to be, but ever since I was 13ish, I can remember people hanging around there, doing the same old whistling/staring routine.

Does anyone remember when that started or when it became an issue? I havent been old enough long enough to know lol.

Im turning 20 in December, and as a young girl

You are not a young girl anymore. You are a grown woman. Perhaps, not as seasoned as the rest of us, but, nonetheless grown.

I do not remember when the "day laborers" started gathering but they were not there 10 years ago. I do not even remember even 5 years ago seeing that many men as I did on Monday.

Patrick Street resident?

Minerva,
To some extent you're correct about the police having their hands tied.They're limited in their ability to stop loitering, or to stop someone from simply standing on the sidewalk. However, on overcrowding it's not really their job. That's a zoning enforcement issue, and Vienna only has like a two man zoning department. Also, the law in Virginia is very much on the side of the tenets, which makes it even more complicated. Like I said before, this issue is difficult, and would be no matter who was on the town council, since much of it is beyond their control.

>>I'm turning 20 in December, and as a young girl

You are not a young girl anymore. You are a grown woman. Perhaps, not as seasoned as the rest of us, but, nonetheless grown.

Don't be so sure. A 'cute, young NE girl living at home' articulately revealing herself online in precise paragraphs and familiar with all of the Town policemen and the domestic and working conditions of illegal aliens and the number of parking violations in SE... could just be a Town keyboard dupe, not a goddess, although 'she' may be fully armed. lol ha-ha ttyl ;-)

Jove...what???

I am 20 (on December 3rd), I AM a female, and I do live in NE. Just because Im articulate and friends with SOME of the police doesnt mean that I work for the town... the reason I consider myself friends with the police is because I actually take time to chat with them when I get a chance to. Unlike many of the teenagers (yeah yeah I know, technically Im not a teenager anymore, but Im still within the age group, so please spare me lol) Im not a troublemaker. The Vienna police who are familiar with me know this! I dont loiter, I dont cause trouble, and Im nice to them.

Also, I dont work for the town. I walk dogs lol. Id love to be a Goddess, but that is not my place in life.

Anyways...Im annoyed having to defend myself on here because you think that just because Im more active and articulate than many my age that Im faking.

I like to be responsible and mature, if you would like me to be immature, I could be, but in a place like this, I feel its best to put in my 2 cents in a manner mostly respectful to others (except for my last post to that person who claimed to be all wisdom holding or whatever, and I apologize, but I get really angry when people attack me and basically say that just because Im young I dont know anything).

Okay Im rambling. Sorry.

Private Security Detail Clears Center of Laborers

http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=600&sid=1297201

Too bad First Washington Reality won't recognize the concerns of local merchants and their customers.

October 25, 2005
By DAN UHLINGER
The Hartford Courant

Last week, three suspected MS-13 gang members were arrested in Vienna, Va., after police tracked their activity between Los Angeles, Massachusetts and Virginia for five months. One of the men is wanted for an MS-13-related slaying in Massachusetts. All three are illegal aliens from El Salvador.

"MS-13 is one of the most active and violent gangs in the country," he said.

So what is a two year old press article supposed to show? Kudos to the police for doing their job, but old news is not convincing.

The men were not in the CVS parking lot a year or two ago in such numbers. I recall mostly seeing them in groups by the 7-11 across Park before. I'd see a few guys at CVS. Now it looks like the start of a parade or something.

Minerva, I speak Spanish well. I stare back at them, too. I tell them they are rude. They generally look embarrassed because they don't expect that response. I have even gotten apologies. That doesn't make what they are doing right or acceptable. The shopping center should be moving them away because are loitering and the police should be helping them. If they were, I doubt I'd see so many guys hanging around.

My friend's family moved out of their house. They were sick of people hanging around, even wandering over in their neighborhood. Some of the neighbors had overcrowded houses full of unrelated people. These were not the families who are supposed to be in single family homes. They were making the houses over into their own tiny apartment buildings. If it's zoning enforcement, then where are they and what are they doing about it?

If Vienna Woods is serious, the debate will move to the only real solution, redevelopment.

Im still waiting for a response from this "Jove" person...

Something I just thought of, do you consider the people looking for the jobs in the mornings (day laborers) loitering?

Now that I think of it, I think the police may differentiate the day laborers and the loiterers because they know that said laborers are there trying to get work.

I have noticed an increased presence there though. I dont go to the Cedar Lane Shopping Center often, but I drive by it a few times a day while working, and do see cops there sometimes.

It seems like they do keep an eye on the day laborers, but they dont eye them the same way as "loiterers" who I think most would consider to be groups of people just hanging around for no reason.

Again, something I will ask next time I talk to one of them.

What do you think?

http://www.viennatimes.com/news/2007/oct/05/suspected-gang-member-arrested-vienna/

http://www.viennatimes.com/news/2007/aug/29/possible-gang-violence-in-vienna/

http://vgia.org/web/print.php?news.364

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=48500&paper=73&cat=104

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Generic&content_type_id=56288&display_order=2&mini_id=56143

Firstwash,

Actually, the current owners of the shopping center do prevent trucks from picking up workers at the center.They have security guard guys in the morning who move them along when that happens on the shopping center property. I don't think they get involved with plain loitering, however.

I had heard that someone from 1st wash realty had gone up there a few times to scare off the illegal aliens. However, I go by that shopping center every day, and I've never seen them doing that.

The prior management company had security there all the time -- although, the guards seemed to all be friends with the illegals and the other guys hanging around.

So what is a two year old press article supposed to show? Kudos to the police for doing their job, but old news is not convincing.

http://www.viennava.gov/Town_Departments/media_releases/MediaRelease-stabbing-nov21.pdf

http://www.viennava.gov/Town_Departments/media_releases/MediaRelease-robbery-nov25.pdf

It was good two years ago... And, still going on today...

BTW Vienna neighbor, thanks for having my back.