The Development of the Wolf Trap No Tell Motel

Any intelligent leadership would be working with the developers to see that this happens, and that it happens with the best interests of the town in mind. Developers stand to make a lot of money with such projects, and are usually willing to do what it takes to keep all interests happy.

The problem with making money in Vienna? By and large Vienna (except money bags Maud) is controlled by a "blue collar we ain't got no money so you ain't'going to make any either even if it helps everyone" attitude...that attitude extends across all areas of Vienna politics, management, employees and most importantly the 500 hundred old farts that vote to keep this attitude in place. Sad. Until they meet their maker...change is unlikely. Now if we move the elections to fall...that would be their worst nightmare. Then Seeman really would go back to handing out library cards.

One day last week we were waiting at the Nutley/Maple Ave. light by Tequila Grande. We noticed that the parking lot was empty except for two guys in suits. One guy was holding up what looked to be like building/development plans, and the other guy was pointing around.

So maybe big change isn't too far off.

anyone who thinks Vienna is a blue collar, "ain't got money" town, needs to take a look at the demographic profile in the U.S. census, the Fx Co website, or the town's website. Maybe the town council needs to take a look some time.

Big changes? If Vienna won't let you build more than 3 stories...and their current zoning code was developed in the 50s by Maud's now deceased husband...how big are the changes? Come on, wake up and show a pulse.

You are all posting as if you know for sure that no one in Town Hall has spoken with Hekemian. As far as I can tell, though, you are just speculating. Get some real, hard facts, and report those.

No, you prove us wrong. The proof is in the pudding (so to speak).

Show us that Maud or Jane did are going forward with the Maple Avenue Vision Committee's recommendations from years ago. Show us that they have decided to switch to form based code. Show us that have agreed to the architectural plans the Marco Polo owners wanted to submit 2 years ago. Show us that they did not want to only study Maple from Center to Park which conveniently left out the areas of town which are most prime for development (Marco Polo, Wolf Trap, 301 Maple, Giant Food Shopping Center, Danor Shopping Plaza).

"I heart Vienna"...what flavor is the Kool-aid you are drinking today? You do understand the concept of "laws" versus some "talk"? the laws say 3 stories...I repeat...the laws say 3 stories...who cares who has talked with who.

"I heart Vienna"..How about the old Southern States building for a prime example of what happens when Town Council and Mayor "talk"with developers! That was a horrible utilization of that land, and what a mess it is to park there. Yipee I want more of that!

I think I heart Vienna is correct -- I'm nearly certain developers talk to the Town Council/staff frequently.

As this is involving the owner, we can be sure that foolishness on the developer's part is not stunting development.

On the other hand, the Town may be putting unreasonable restrictions on Hekemian or otherwise stonewalling them.

The Wolf Trap Motel was probably needed in the 1970s when there was precious little else around.

This would be a nice place to try out some of the form based development ideas discussed on this site. I am not certain, however, the Town has the foresight to move past the 1950s strip mall mentality. On the other hand -- some people like that, it seems enough people like it to re-elect Robison, Seeman, etc.

A developer would be out of his mind not to talk to the town before paying big money to a firm to design building plans. Regardless, I was just trying to point out how useless a speculative conversation like this one was.

When you start changing zoning laws, building rules, and allowing big redevlopment to accomodate bigger and better things, you begin sliding down a slippery slope to turning what was and is the beautiful TOWN of Vienna into 'Tyson's Corner Extended'. Those building rules have been there for a reason.

I am not so naive as to believe that growth is bad or unavoidable. Vienna needs to grow some. But it must be controlled or we will lose everything that makes Vienna unique within the bustling Fairfax County world of office buildings and condos.

I heart Vienna:

What sort of growth would you want to see? Do you view 4-5 story buildings that many (including myself) have proposed as 'Tysons Extended,' for example?

A developer would be out of his mind not to talk to the town before paying big money to a firm to design building plans. Regardless, I was just trying to point out how useless a speculative conversation like this one was. When you start changing zoning laws, building rules, and allowing big redevlopment to accomodate bigger and better things, you begin sliding down a slippery slope to turning what was and is the beautiful TOWN of Vienna into 'Tyson's Corner Extended'. Those building rules have been there for a reason. I am not so naive as to believe that growth is bad or unavoidable. Vienna needs to grow some. But it must be controlled or we will lose everything that makes Vienna unique within the bustling Fairfax County world of office buildings and condos.

You have no clue. Zero. You don't help the discussion you take it backwards due to your naivete. You have clearly not read the Maple Avenue Vision Report. I am glad you trust authority implicitly and that you were tucked in as a kid regularly, but try and be intelligent here.

I heart: Beautiful downtown Vienna? It must have been for you they put in the crossing beepers.

I hope we get more banks!

Maybe the developers could build four more commerce bank spaceships side by side??? Maybe four more "colonial" chevy chase banks???

Alight, alright... maybe I was a little too overdramatic about 'beautiful downtown Vienna' (although I do believe that church street -even the new development - is very attractive from the street).

Let's keep this discussion going: how do you propose the Town fix or redevelop Maple Ave, the far-too-numerous banks and mattress shops, etc, and utilize the space best? What would go best in the WolfTrap Motel/Roy Rogers(Mexican Restaurant) space?

I haven't read the Maple Ave. vision report. I'm sure other readers haven't as well. Can anyone give a brief, unbiased synopsis?

Also, let's keep this conversation mature. Save the insults for another time, Mr. Man, and grow up.

I heart: Church Street new development is attractive? A rose in a wheat field is a weed.

Sorry "I Heart Vienna", I have no patience or sympathy for incompetence or laziness. I don't consider a conversation "mature" when I have to debate someone who refuses to read up on a subject before pontificating about it.

In defense of I Heart Vienna, I doubt that many other people in Vienna have read or even know about the Maple Avenue Vision Report.

The whole town of Vienna obviously doesn't center itself around the readers of this site, so instead of bickering about whose right on here when it comes to something no one on this site had anything to do with, start making ideas for the redevelopment.

How many times have I come here and said to everyone to throw their own ideas out there, and gotten no answers? It seems like most people come in here to bitch and moan about their grudges against Vienna, which really does nothing in the way of helping make the town a better place for YOU to live.

And Mr. Man, stop using words that will make your head explode. You obviously have self-esteem issues. If you go back and read through all but your first comment, you have made stupid insults and are too hard-headed to be worthwhile. So come up with something substantial and maybe a good idea or two, and then people will start giving a damn what you think about them. Thanks!

If you go back and read through all but your first comment, you have made stupid insults and are too hard-headed to be worthwhile. So come up with something substantial and maybe a good idea or two, and then people will start giving a damn what you think about them.

Ah, great, there you go. It must feel so much better to have said that! ...Those dealing with IQs north of 100 do understand what issues I am driving at, but hang in there!

Minerva got a new script writer.

Among Eleanor Roosevelt's many memorable quotations is the following: "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." I learn more from ideas -- even wrongheaded ones -- than from ad hominem attacks, no matter how warranted.

Of course the idea is not to sit around and "attack", but at some point people who clearly have no clue, who have demonstrated zero ability to understand "ideas", while pretending to add to the discussion...serve no purpose when time is an issue and doing things the right way is important. That said, I don't agree that one needs to be nice to people who a.) have no clue or b.) purposefully try to screw a community up so they can simply get reelected. V says it well...regardless of the political level.

Apparently both Wyltn and Mr. Man suffer from SPS. It's not my fault you feel inadequate, but you don't need to come in here and go all internet tough guy. You both lack any redeeming qualities, so shove it.

You have hardly added anything useful to this thread, Mr. Man.

Minerva, when was the last time you attended a Town Council meeting or how many meetings have you attended or have you ever attended a TCM?

WISE MAN SAYS:

THERE IS A TIME TO DISCUSS IDEAS.
THERE IS A TIME TO DISCUSS EVENTS.
THERE IS A TIME TO DISCUSS PEOPLE.

Is the idea to actually try and effect reform, or is it to sit around and kvetch with 10-12 people who already agree with you?

Basically most of the ideas/studies that have been tabled by the Town Council seem to advocate form-based zoning, i.e. 4-6 story mixed used buildings. Retail on the ground, and then office/residential on the higher floors. Since Maple is wider than Church, we can have higher buildings on Maple.

If the redevelopment works, and all these owners of new buildings along Maple fill them with happy offices, retailers, and residents, there might be enough money/presence to sponsor a Town bus line between Dunn Loring and Vienna Metros that runs along Maple (or to justify turning Maple into a Metrobus heavy line a la Columbia Pike.)

The strip mall is the least efficient method of packing people, retail, and offices in. As the DC area compacts, all this open space along 123, near the Silver and Orange lines, will become too valuable to leave as a parking lot.

Shawn if you think only 10-12 people visit this site...well you are mistaken. People don't like to post, but they like to read. And readership here ain't small.

Hey, Wrong - Shawn didn't say 10-12 read the site, he said 10-12 kvetch. That's my read on this site also. I'm into reading what my neighbors think about development, etc, and hearing people's solutions, but a group of posters here just blast everything they disagree with instead of having a civil discussion. People like me do read it all the time, but mostly for the sheer entertainment value of what the local maniacs are ranting about.

I think if there were a more rational Vienna-related blog, people would go there, but who would want to start one in this environment? We all probably go to the same pool, school, grocery store (not Magruders - Whole Foods!), etc. I wouldn't want to find out that someone I like in person is blasting me anonymously online. That's creepy.

Hey, Wrong - Shawn didn't say 10-12 read the site, he said 10-12 kvetch. That's my read on this site also. I'm into reading what my neighbors think about development, etc, and hearing people's solutions, but a group of posters here just blast everything they disagree with instead of having a civil discussion. People like me do read it all the time, but mostly for the sheer entertainment value of what the local maniacs are ranting about.

Of course all of this talk about progressive development and taking Vienna forward is maniac nutso talk...Come on...If you don't understand the conversation, say so.

You know I am going to sound like I'm rubbing against the grain here but reading these comments is intriquing. We have people complaining about our town Govt. yet we had an embarrassing 7% turnout in the most recent election. Hmmmmmmmm, now there is something we can all be proud of. Instead of whinning on a website, geeze folks get involved and make a difference. Yes, Vienna, for all its affluent residents is backwards in many ways but sometimes people are just plain oblivious and need to be turned in the right direction. People, get involved,make a difference in your community, you can do it!!!

Mr. Man, you seem terrified to have anyone disagree with you. That's kind of sad, because you obviously care a lot about these issues. Of course I support progressive development - I live here! And I don't think we disagree - that's the funny part. I just disagree with your delivery. If you don't understand, say so.

At the time Vienna residents were questioning the Vienna Water and Sewer policies comments similar to some of these above were expressed. Now, years later, we have Fairfax County investigating Vienna's practices.

You know I am going to sound like I'm rubbing against the grain here but reading these comments is intriquing. We have people complaining about our town Govt. yet we had an embarrassing 7% turnout in the most recent election. Hmmmmmmmm, now there is something we can all be proud of. Instead of whinning on a website, geeze folks get involved and make a difference. Yes, Vienna, for all its affluent residents is backwards in many ways but sometimes people are just plain oblivious and need to be turned in the right direction. People, get involved,make a difference in your community, you can do it!!!

That comment and this comment...

Mr. Man, you seem terrified to have anyone disagree with you. That's kind of sad, because you obviously care a lot about these issues. Of course I support progressive development - I live here! And I don't think we disagree - that's the funny part. I just disagree with your delivery. If you don't understand, say so.

...sound like people who literally have no political experience at all. This is the kind of idealism taught in high school civics...the real world has characters like Maud.

"I don't like your delivery"...so I will ignore your content..."dad they are being mean to me"...pathetic.

law degree, 5 years on Capitol Hill, 5 years at the Justice Department, 7 years at the State Department, 2 presidential political campaigns. That's my political experience. But why does it matter what anyone's experience is? Anyone can weigh in on a public blog.

Mr. Man, you're the single reason this site is so highly amusing - love it!

law degree, 5 years on Capitol Hill, 5 years at the Justice Department, 7 years at the State Department, 2 presidential political campaigns. That's my political experience. But why does it matter what anyone's experience is? Anyone can weigh in on a public blog.

Mr. Man, you're the single reason this site is so highly amusing - love it!

Am I surprised that you are a career bureaucrat? Not exactly.

Mr. Man, you're the single reason this site is so highly amusing - love it!

So some think 3 stories is too low, some think it's too high. What is just right, goldilocks? Give examples. Have you been to Oakton lately? They've bunched all their banks together in one intetersection! Is that better than ours spaced a block appart? Do you like their revitalized Giant Food center with the Starbucks as anchor? Or do you want to see something like Fairfax Corner (a la Back to the Future) Town Square?

What do you this political experience IS? This is Washington, DC! Get over yourself. Anyway, back to Vienna, anyone?

I would love to see a Town where we can all safely walk and shop. At this point I feel I take my life into my own hands when I do that. I think 3/4 stories along Maple Ave is plenty. I also like the idea of replacing some of the industrial places near the bikepath with bistros. I miss having places to go where I can eat outside.

Susan, that's a good idea about the industrial things being turned into nice little Bistros or something like that.

Everyone in every neighborhood wants to feel safe, but in reality, that not entirely possible, whether it be Vienna or anywhere else on the planet. Crime can be quite random. Im not denying the recent serious crimes going on in Vienna, Im just saying that there is always a chance of crime happening, no matter where you are.

I'm all for bistros, but why not along Maple, Church, and the commercial side roads leading back to the residential streets first instead of the industrial section? There is definitely room for a lot more bistros and other walkable commercial uses along these streets and I'd much rather see these streets get re-developed over the industrial section. The alley where Bikes of Vienna is for instance could really be a cute walkable lane with bistros as could the area between the town green and Center Street. You could also create some pedestrian areas on some of these larger parcels in Vienna.

I think the industrial section is a great part of Vienna and adds to the diversity of buildings in the town - I want to create more mixed uses, not less. Also, the industrial section of Vienna almost entirely abuts residential properties and I'm sure these people do not want to look at taller commercial buildings. If people want to develop bistros within the confines of the current industrial zoning, I'm ok with that (in fact I'd love it if that Posh building that was going out of business became a restaurant - it would be a perfect place for one since it's near the bike trail, church st. town green, etc). In the middle between Mill and Dominion, you could maybe look at some zoning changes, but I want the town to first focus on fixing the Maple Avenue corridor.