Miscellaneous Vienna Rumors ...

It\'s about time. We need a mattress store.

What two places do we love? I occasionally patronize Chipotle and Coldstone, but most often Starbucks, almost never the noodle shop or Safeway. I do agree that the parking issue is ridiculous, but think that the Safeway parking lot should be shared with customers from the other stores. If it can't, then that tiny parking lot should never have allowed such popular places to be there. Not sure that's up to the city to decide as much as it is the dumb decision of the restaurants. All it causes is frustrated customers who will go elsewhere to eat.

As for the Safeway, I don't understand why it is still there taking up so much retail space offering so little in return. Let's get something in their that adds some value. Any idea whether Trader Joe's could move in there instead of the That's Amore space?

I never go there but it seems that Noodles & Co (whenever I pass by) is packed. They're also *very* generous to schools for dining events.

Any love lost for Safeway if the rumor is true? Nah.

VPC has talked of buying Safeway to build an even larger pray hall. Are they there again?

Rumor is true..and Walgreens is coming! Oh great another drugstore. Internet, I know you were pulling for a mattress shop, but I wanted another gas station or bank.

Thanks - that's really annoying if it's true. Chipotle and Noodles & Co. (and Starbucks, of course) are great additions to this town. I have little kids, and we go to those three places all the time. Vienna Mommy is right that Noodles is very generous with regard to the school fundraisers. If the problem is parking, the safeway lot should be made available - this is a no-brainer.

I hope Trader Joe's comes to Safeway, but if it's true that Giant and Whole Foods killed it earlier re the That's Amore spot, I guess the same thing will happen again.

I guess I'm one of the few people that really like the Safeway Store. I have gotten to know the people working there and they are extremely helpful, the food is better priced than Giant, and I enjoy shopping at Safeway and then walking to the other stores nearby. I also get my Christmas Tree in that parking lot. I think that parking lot is well used by people going to Jammin Java and those restaurants. Why don't those restaurants and Jammin Java pay Safeway to have the use of some of their parking spaces? Safeway does not use all of these spaces and they could get money for them.

How does the Town control leases on a commercial property? Do you mean business licenses? If so, is public input allowed? I frequent Chipotle, Starbucks, Noodles, and Coldstone and would hate to see them go. Safeway not so much, since there are other choices nearby. As far as parking goes, I admit it is a bit tight, but not impossible. Traffic and parking are the price of commercial progress and that development seems to me to be the only sign of modern progress in Vienna. I'd rather have traffic and choices than an easy commute to just one diner that Opie and Aunt Bee can walk to. If the town and its residents really are trying to maintain Mayberry as it was in the 1950's then I really must be moving on.

But seriously, what concrete action could one take if this rumor is true? Public hearing, petition, email campaign?

Why would Trader Joes approach the town? The town doesn't own the space. This sounds like an untrue rumor. Anyone know the truth? That's Amore was originally a grocery store & it would be great if TJ could strike a deal there. As for the Safeway, I'd like to see more intense development on that site. The town's main street shouldn't be a sea of surface parking lots. And yes, some kind of shared parking arrangement should be negotiated with those restaurants. but no one in the town seems to have the expertise or will to do such a thing.

Why would anyone want to close down restaurants that are doing well? (Chipotle, Noodles, etc.) I'll miss Safeway, but that is only because it is close to my house. Let Chipotle and the others use the parking lot by Safeway. If Chipotle closes, I will just go back to driving to the Chipotle in Tyson's. Let's keep business running in our town.

Anne:

You must have missed this discussion. Greg Hembree was quoted in the local paper about Trader Joe's:

http://www.historicvienna.com/2008/09/we_believe_in_a_free_market_an.html

Some of you really just don't get how much control the Town has over what comes here. They can turn down businesses based on a variety of factors (in this case, not renewing a lease based on limited parking).

BTW, Safeway did NOT want to work with the other businesses to create a parking solution.

wow,
Do you know any more details about Safeway not wanting to work with the other businesses to create a parking solution? I'd be interested to hear more. It seems strange that they would not be open to this before choosing to sell their land in a very depressed market.

In contrast to the Vienna site, they are building a brand new huge gourmet Safeway off Anderson Road on the other side of Tysons in place of the old one there.

Boy do I agree with you Anne. What a waste of space! This would have been a great chance to get a Maple Ave Vision going. Oh wait I guess strip malls and driving from location to location is Vienna's vision. Very sad.

here's the skinny best that I know:

Safeway closes early December and CVS is moving to the location. Giant is taking over CVS.

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Banks, Gas Stations and Pharmacies.

So the wonderful town government would rather have vacant buildings lining the business streets than try to work out a minor parking issue. Trader Joes typically occupy smaller spaces than most modern grocers, with fairly limited parking. And they've been very successful with this model. Only Vienna thinks it's unworkable.

By the time Seeman completes her makeover of Vienna, it will look just like me, her toilet bowl!

In all seriousness, Vienna controls development, which means as a builder/buyer you have to go to them for approvals. There is no 'by right' process in Vienna when you have a review board with Laine Hyde on it reviewing all commercial businesses. Hyde is a fruitcake, not very bright and is as stable as a mental patient. Go review the Town minutes, its all there...so at the end of the day its not surprising we have idiotic decisions in Vienna...the leaders are idiots.

I haven't counted parking spaces, but I'd bet that the That's Amore lot has more spaces than Magruders' or Whole Foods' lots. Why on earth do we have to put up with such craziness? And what about the property owner? Why isn't he suing the town for rendering his property useless? Exactly what uses WOULD be permitted there?

Safeway applied to the County (not sure WHY the County vs. the Town) for a Gasoline Station permit, and was turned down by the same. Point to remember - the New Safeway at Pan Am Shopping Center controls a gas station there.
The closing of our Safeway is due more to their success at Pan Am, and their plan to open at the New Tysons, not to their being damaged, hurt or offended by the Town of Vienna. The Town actually has little (if any) control over who leases and or buys private commercial properties. Theirs is not the choice to determine if any other nail salon, mattress store, bank or pharmacy buys or rents a privately owned property. It's the Free Enterprise System in action - If you owned any such property in Town, you would not respond well to the Town telling you who you can and cannot sell or lease to - Easy to blame the local government, but it's the current laws of the country and the state that preclude our exclusion of businesses that approach private individuals.

Safeway owns a parking lot and has no troubles until the town violates its own ordinances and allows building next door without adequate parking. Safeway has no problem, Chipolte has a problem. By your rationale

l your neighbor should be able to park in your driveway because he has too many cars that will not fit in his. The TOV should be protecting Safeway and not allowing them to be violated. Not only are the neighboring business patrons parking on Safeway but tractor trailer deliveries are being made from the Safeway parking lot causing a dangerous situation that probably would be held as Safeway's responsiblity.

Safeway @ 29 and Nutley is much better, and I suspect S Vienna can go there, and N Vienna can go to Tysons. I won't miss the TOV Safeway very much.

I am not sure how they could've put in a gas station at the TOV Safeway. That would've made parking for Glyndon Center restaurants real tight.

The Town can turn down a business permit but the scorned business could in theory sue the Town if the Town violated its ordinances or violated some other law in the process. Ditto for any grand ideas to tear down the Safeway and put in some mixed-used development or the such.

There's so much gossip going on here that one can't figure out what's right. For instance, there is no Safeway on Anderson. There's a Safeway in McLean and an old small one on Old Dominion. The notion that Safeway is building or remodeling anything that would be easily accessible from Vienna is questionable. And, what's this stuff about a gas station? There's no room on the Safeway parking lot for one. If safeway wanted a gas station all they had to do was buy the BP station across the street which is for sell. All nonsense.

The Town actually has little (if any) control over who leases and or buys private commercial properties.

This is 100% false. You are either:

1. Town official or associate
2. Or busy body who has no clue.

The reason the Town actually has COMPLETE control over who leases and or buys private commercial properties is due to written and unwritten prohibitive policies set forth by TC. Does anyone really think commercial business owners, developers, etc. would choose to have Vienna look like an armpit? Of course not, case in point Reston Town Center and Clarendon. There is more money to be made with nice stuff. Buiders/developers know that people like newer, more attractive, cleaner, more functional development. Vienna is all about class warfare though, so many Vienna residents, those near dead voters, would rather shoot themselves in the foot to spite the "unfairness" of it all then actually do something good and right that would benefit future generations.

Sadly, Vienna's government is made up of mutants who talk of small town this and small town that who completely ignore that Vienna is not Mayberry, it's not quaint, rather downtown Vienna is one of the most unsightly developed areas in one of the wealthiest counties in the country. It really is sad, but please don't let people on here push forth the BS that the Town controls nothing. That is crap.

Disgusted,
There is definitely a Safeway in McLean is off Anderson Road and Colshire Drive. It was an old Safeway and now they are rebuilding it as a new gourmet Safeway. Not sure why you think this is false. Go drive over there and check it out. BTW, I was told by a Vienna Safeway manager that they didn't want to move from Vienna, but couldn't keep the store as it was. They wanted to build a new 2-story Safeway, but that the town wouldn't let them build over the 35' height limit. Going to the Nutley Safeway is possible, but I would much prefer our downtown be revitalized than always having to drive outside the town limits. I am able to walk or bike to the current Vienna Safeway and now will have to drive.

Can anyone explain to me again the logic of the 35 feet height rule? Please do NOT tell me it is to prevent high-rises. 45 feet or even 60 feet is not a high rise.

BTW, I cannot help but chuckle when I hear people are STILL running around Vienna whispering to anyone who will listen that challengers to Town Council seats 2-3 years ago were going to put in 20 story office buildings along Maple Avenue. What dumbs&%ts.

I stand corrected on the Anderson Street store. I thought the 35 foot rule applied to residential areas, not businesses. Aren't there buildings along Maple that exceed 35 feet. How about the building where United bank is located for instance?

I was putting up a 20 foot building at Giant. Not sure how.

Theirs is not the choice to determine if any other nail salon, mattress store, bank or pharmacy buys or rents a privately owned property. It's the Free Enterprise System in action...

Seriously who are you? Town employee? Maud? Town Manager's son again? The woman who directed people how to vote 2 years ago? This much is clear by your writing...you sure don't like the honest message on this site.

Why do some people think that by encouraging the Town to not change anything they are going to be able to preserve their current quality of life and small town feel where they live? What I think many people like by a "small town feel" is the involvement and responsibility of community members to each other and to the town and the feeling of being connected to their neighbors. I don't think it always means that a town is small. It's not possible now or in the future for Vienna to have some of the things very small towns have (such as little traffic) because of all the building around Vienna. Places are always changing so by doing nothing it's more probable that other towns will begin to attract business that used to be in Vienna. Then slowly Vienna begins to look less and less vibrant compared to nearby revitalized neighborhoods and people drive to those other areas to spend time verses spending time in Vienna where they live which undermines a "small town feel" for Vienna. A quote from a website on downtowns says "Downtown is a long-term community asset that must be nurtured, maintained and promoted."

There isn't a lot of housing and business in downtown Vienna, but there is lots of traffic moving through, so the new businesses are catering more to the people driving through Vienna than actually living here. Vienna used to be one of the more attractive downtowns in Fairfax County, but now Fairfax, Falls Church, Reston, Herndon, Fairfax Corner, Merrifield, and soon Tysons, Springfield, and McLean are or will be competing and surpassing them not to mention the many many new walkable neighborhoods in Arlington, Alexandria, D.C. and Maryland that are also drawing people and business away from Vienna.

I think the town should continue to promote a small town feel, but I don't understand why this means the town cannot promote redeveloping into something different than it is now. People are trying to bike, walk, and take bus and metro more where places allow, and are now used to parking behind stores and in parking garages rather than right out in front. They also now often walk from store to store verses driving. Many are interested in living in smaller homes because they are more affordable, easier to maintain, and usually located in more walkable areas. Well planned re-developed downtowns are actually learning from development built prior to suburban sprawl when pedestrians were emphasized over cars and people lived in smaller homes more closely connected to each other, so in a way this new development is more "historical" than the current strip malls and single family houses are. With the right planning changes, nothing drastically different but still forward thinking, the future of downtown Vienna could be vibrant, walkable, bikeable, affordable, have a local local businesses flavor, and have a small town feel. The longer Vienna continues to do nothing however, the harder and harder I think it will be to compete with other places to simply maintain the quality of life and small town feel Vienna has today.

A recent article on a redeveloping town called Collingswood similar in size to Vienna:
http://www.cooltownstudios.com/2008/11/07/transit-oriented-small-town-renews-itself
Anther article on Collingswood
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/realestate/02livi.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Vacancy alert: what's going on with the Starbucks/Party City building? Party City has a moving sale going on and there's a "For Lease" sign above the store.

Party City is moving nearby on Maple Avenue. I don't know what business is moving into the old Party City store.

It is hard to decipher why Maud is so adament about protecting the business owners in Vienna i.e. Mom and Pop stores. Now consider that Maud's father ran a furniture store and certainly he would not want his town to do anything that would impact on his business. Does that make sense as to why we have this protective attitude in Vienna?

Vienna is a very poorly run town. Maple Avenue has so much potential. How sad.

I've heard this second hand, so it qualifies as a rumor. There was a reported (unsuccessful) car jacking to Vienna police early the morning of 11/9 on Branch Ave.

Cheers to Collingswood. I hope thier town center thrives. I am neither a city planner nor a traffic engineer, but I can read a map. If you look up Collingswood NJ on Yahoo maps, you'll see that it has two arterial roads that flank around the town leading to and from Philadelphia, and nicely placed rivers north and south that block cut through traffic. It also has a grid pattern street layout to make it easy to get around without forcing all traffic onto the main street.

Vienna, on the other hand, has only what amounts to a highway running right through the center connecting Oakton to Tysons, and all back roads lead to nowhere, forcing even local traffic onto our "main street."

The noise, smell, view, and perils of that kind of traffic seems to make it all but impossible for Maple to ever be a charming, fun, pedestrian friendly "main street."

Solution? Let Maple be what it is: a thoroughfare. Fill it with three story office buildings to crowd out the mattress stores and bring in tax revenue. Then get Donald Trump or the Rouse Company to turn Mill street and the obviously pedestrian friendly WO&D Trail that parallels it into Vienna's crown jewel. I can imagine that area looking and feeling much like Winter Park, Florida with high end boutiques, trendy restaurants, art galleries,etc. All walkable with park space running through its center along the trail. Plenty of room to build parking. There's already a park there at the end to boot.

Pipe dream, I know. But at least we have to not surrender to thinking we cannot compete with Tysons and instead try to complement Tysons. Slap up a luxury hotel on the golf course while we're at it.

OK I really should get back to work now.

I can confirm that Safeway is as good as gone. December, to be replaced by Walgreens.

I hear they are trying to work with the new tenant and the landlord to resolve the parking issue for the Church Street shops including Chipotle, Cold Stone, Noodles, etc.

Now that there will be one less grocery store, does this mean that the Town will reconsider its position vis-a-vis Trader Joes?

Bounce, as long as Maude is alive, Mill St will remain exactly as it is because she wants to be able to take her lawnmower to be sharpened right here in town. this the kind of logic we're dealing with.

Vienna Mommy--My guess is that the 35 foot rule is just like every other arbitrary rule in this town: because it's always been that way. Why would they ever consider changing anything when the town is so perfect as it is? Every 7 yrs the town govt is required to restudy it's comprehensive plan to see what needs to be updated & every 7 yrs they all agree that they like it just the way it is.

Years ago my husband and I owned the car wash next to Money and King. Was great business. Who cares about you people, I got mine.

Vienna's small town feel=a bunch of gadflies who like to have power, and would NEVER have it anywhere else. Thus it is their mission to keep Vienna the way it is.

"Who wants that feel?" you exactly right. What's so funny is that you people on this site see it correctly, but the old farts who vote for me and my machine are lemmings who have no clue. You might have a chance once we die, since the undereducated blue collar mindset of typical Vienna voter will be replaced by more progressive minded voters. Until that time, yes, I will enjoy my power as I deliver absolutely nothing for Vienna. And you know what's really funny? I will continue to talk small town this and small town that making it seem like I am Mrs. Vienna. Suckers!

I love all the stores in that strip, but avoid them most of the time because of the disastrous parking situation. It isn't just how bad the parking is, but the danger and absurdity of the intersection, and that going from front lot to the back alley requires driving up 123 and all around the block back to park st. It's just absurd.

Unfortunately Maud there are a lot of young backstabbing gadflies who are rising in the ranks. But you still need to be proud Maud because this is what you created. Nastiness!

The reasons that we don't see the right type of growth in this town we let her. You need to have someone run that will be allowed to win. What I mean is, we need to get out younger voters that wish to see change, and we need to insure that people like Maud, Rhoda Stevens, and their ilk won't cheat in the election process, and when election problems ARE found, we need people better than Devolites who said she would take care of the problem and did nothing and people better than Deborah Brehony, who initially demanded an investigation, and then dropped all interest... for what? a seat in an upcoming election as long as she allows the mess to be swept under the rug? That's the way things are done in Vienna. So, you all can bitch and moan, but until we get these old and stagnated morons out of office, we get what we get: the same old shit.

By the way, is this really Shirley?

http://www.historicvienna.com/2008/03/shirley_damon_abusive_and_corr.html

The Maud Patrol will win, always, until we find a way to stop her fiendish ways....

http://www.historicvienna.com/2007/07/maud_and_her_crew_are_corrupt.html

I will miss the Safeway alot.

It is nice to have a small store, who needs a gigantic grocery store for a few items. Guess I am off to dirty Magruders.

How do we push for the TJ's?

Some of us love that "dirty Magruders."

BTW, Trader Joe's is never going to happen. Hopefully, this will be a lesson for all the people who ignore our Town elections and do not follow what is really going on in Vienna.

Here's one way to push for Trader Joe's. Obviously, the owner of Danor Plaza has the most to gain from Trader Joe's coming in. If they don't get a viable tenant soon, the center is essentially worthless. In case no one has noticed, we're in the early stages of a long, hard recession and real estate will be hit very hard. The center's owner surely wants to do what he can to lease that space asap. The writers on this board should form a coalition and meet with the owner, then hold some meetings to gather community support. It should be fairly easy--no one wants a boarded up shopping center when they could have a popular grocery store. The coalition should FORCE the town to come up with a solution. Surely something reasonable can be worked out. We should not give up on this because of the town's archaic and ineffective parking codes.

Heard from the greeter @ Safeway that it's set for 12/6 and that CVS will be taking over. Anyone else can confirm?

I won't lie I will be going to Safeway on 12/4 or 12/5 to see if things are orderly or if it is like the closing of the Front Royal Roses in the early 1990s.

It sounds like no one has signed a lease yet for the Safeway store. That's a bad sign in these hard economic times.

I heard thru the grapvine that HOOTERS is interested in establishing their business in Vienna.