Do You Think Vienna is Liveable?

I'd take 1-6 and 8-10.

What a great list. This list should be sent to all on Town Council and to all new candidates that might like to be on town council and ask them to give the citizens information on all these points. How could they make our town more livable?

Nice list, sure not Vienna! So the reality is that the small town charm talk was all a 40 year sham so a bunch of boobs could control a local government because they are addicted to power? By George (not Lovelace), we have the truth.

3. A livable city has little or no wide, multi-lane, high-speed highway and road infrastructure within its central area. And few, if any, one-way streets, strip commercial development or cul-de-sacs.

Number three sticks out like a sore thumb - this has been the Vienna model for years. The "powers that be" came to believe this created a small town environment (years of research, right?!) but instead, we have been shooting ourselves in the foot since the 1950s. My generation, raised on strip malls, cul-de-sacs and traffic, want something completely different. And, even though I live on a cul-de-sac, I completely understand that they undermine traffic and pedestrian flow.

When did Maple Avenue expand from a small two lane road to the 4 lane (actually 5 when you include the center turning lane)? This is when Vienna's central area should have been moved to Church Street... maybe it is.

If the Town Leaders at that point had kept Maple Avenue small like King Street in Old Town Alexandria, Vienna could have kept it's small town charm.

Commuter traffic could have (should have) been circumvented around what should have been our charming small town center, but instead, as per usual, we have no intelligent life when it comes to our political leadership, then and now.

Maple Avenue isn't too bad when considering other places in Fairfax County like route 50 in Fairfax. It definitely still has potential as a walkable street. King Street is almost as wide as Maple Avenue, but it has parking instead of a second lane each way making it more pedestrian friendly. Washington Street I think is larger than Maple Ave. The nice thing about Alexandria though is that there is a grid of streets for many blocks so that no one street has too much traffic, whereas Vienna only has Maple Ave as a through street. It also has Church and Locust for a portion but they both dead end. In Vienna, there is a bikepath with few crossings from side to side, even pedestrian or bicycle ones which makes it difficult to walk or bike from one side to the other. And there are a ton of cul-de-sacs without even a pedestrian connection from one side to the other. Why does the master plan map say John Marshall drive should be connected to Beulah with exclamation points, but instead it was built somewhat recently as another cul-de-sac without even a pedestrian connection from the cul-de-sac to Beulah? It's much more difficult now for kids to walk to each other's homes in that area and to the elementary school. If they couldn't agree on putting in the road connection, why did they do away with a pedestrian connection too? There are many places in Vienna where some pedestrian connections would really make it much easier for people to get around by foot.

It would be nice if Vienna could incorporate the items listed above at least to a small scale being that it's a town rather than a city. Walkscore.com has a less extensive list mainly involving infrastructure changes that would help spur a more walkable town which in turn could help attract more business that cater to a walking crowd making the town more "livable".

Walkscore.com
What makes a neighborhood walkable?
• A center: Walkable neighborhoods have a discernable center, whether it's a shopping district, a main street, or a public space. (Vienna has this already with Center Street, the town green, library, town hall, and community center. Unfortunately most of the businesses in the center of town are car oriented).
• Density: The neighborhood is compact enough for local businesses to flourish and for public transportation to run frequently. (Vienna is not compact at all. Something like 82% of the homes in Vienna are single family and they are all on about 1/4 acre or larger). One thing I like about Vienna though is that quite a few single family houses are within walking distance of a portion of Maple Ave. If more diverse housing types could be put above stores near or on Maple Ave, we would have more density and variety of home choices plus a more thriving commercial district)
• Mixed income, mixed use: Housing is provided for everyone who works in the neighborhood: young and old, singles and families, rich and poor. Businesses and residences are located near each other. (Vienna is very expensive and there isn't much in the way of diverse housing types. There are very few people between 20 and 30 here and the people getting older are moving away because they want to downsize and there isn't a lot of smaller housing here)
• Parks and public space: There are plenty of public places to gather and play. (Vienna is all set with this one, in fact we probably have too many parks per the amount of people living here)
• Pedestrian-centric design: Buildings are placed close to the street to cater to foot traffic, with parking lots relegated to the back. (the only buildings that are placed close to the street are on Church Street and the center of town along Maple, but the Maple Ave buildings are non-conforming so if the zoning isn't changed, any new buildings there will need to be built further back.
• Nearby schools and workplaces: Schools and workplaces are close enough that most residents can walk from their homes. (schools are close, but there aren't sidewalks to get there. There are few bikeways for people to bike to work and there are few pedestrian and bike connections to Navy Federal and Tysons)
Streets Designed for Everyone
Complete Streets are roads designed for everyone who uses them, including bicyclists, pedestrians of all ages and abilities, and people getting on and off transit vehicles. These streets are:
• Accessible: There are wheelchair ramps, plenty of benches with shade, sidewalks on all streets, etc. (Vienna is missing many sidewalks)
• Well-connected: Streets form a connected grid that improves traffic by providing many routes to any destination. (too many dead ends. No connecting grid)
• Built for the right speed: Lanes are narrow or traffic calming is in place to control speed. (Vienna has the most traffic calming measures of any town I know)
• Comfortable: Pedestrian medians at intersections, count-down crosswalk timers, bicycle lanes, protected bus shelters, etc. make the street work better for those outside of a car. (most of these are here in Vienna except the bicycle lanes)

Do you also get upset when your orange juice doesn't taste like apple juice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suburb#United_States

Maple Avenue = Mexican Frogger

Uhhhh... we're not a city, period.

The real problem with this town is that there really is no real and true small town spirit. The town is dead. Yes you cannot deny that we have the appearance of an acting local government with all the trimmings and town events including but not limited to parades and walks, and strolls, and fairs and festivals which do attract both the interests of local and outside interests, but if you ever ask the question to younger newer inhabitants to Vienna, almost 80% are unaware of the tangible problems Vienna citizens face when it comes to zoning issues, tax appropriations, population changes, land use conflicts, political infighting, voting irregularities (to put in mildly), back room deals that should be investigated, school crowding issues and how our own local government has impeded or stopped efforts to allow for our school children to have better classrooms, the issues over real historic preservation and how our present political machine has allowed and even forced the destruction of structures that have been deemed historic even by National Standards (the Moorefield Structure), the list goes on... What does this all mean when it comes to our town?

It means that we are still apathetic when it comes to making Vienna a great town we can all enjoy for years to come, with newer and more up to date land use decisions that will help bring revenue into our town that is both equitable and affordable when added to the residential taxes we all must pay to "enjoy" living in Vienna. we need better leadership in our local government that is not blind to the problems we all face, that are willing to make the decisions that help us in the future. We need to fight against the blind will of Maud's machine that has done nothing but keep Vienna from any real change with these older citizens thinking she is protecting their interests, but in reality, nothing could be further from the truth.

Most of the Maudites will read this and exclaim that all this is hogwash, and just sour grapes again. They will never have their minds changes, they are too old, too convinced in their ways, that they are fighting a machine that they think will destroy their Vienna, simply because they will believe the rumors spread by nitwits that new leadership will result in 17 floor office buildings, and no more parades or festivities, the death of our small town charm...

Well, the town government is doing that all by itself right now. They are so set in concrete to keep Vienna from any change or improvements, that whenever any change that does get approved, it's usually done without any long term vision or cooperation with surrounding businesses and landowners. The town spent thousands of dollars a couple of years ago and brought in experts to study the ideal growth and land use changes we all agree is required to keep Vienna vibrant in the decades to come. The conclusion was mixed use zoning that would allow for a better and more varied use of our existing real estate. This is the same type of use that we see in Historic and Old Town uses in Georgetown, Alexandria, Fairfax, Clifton, Manassas, Leesburg, Arlington, Reston, Herndon, Annapolis, you get the picture... But you would think the town leaders would adopt this and work to build a visionary project to allow for the completion of smart growth projects that result in structures being built that allow for the appearance of old and historic building but allow for the modern conveniences and land use to merge retail, office use, and residential use in one footprint... the perfect marriage of all uses to better serve our town citizens and business owners. Older people are complaining they are being driven out of town by highers taxes, and lots they are forced to leave because they do not want to keep up with the work around their yards, or the fact they maybe living a an outdated older style lot right next to a newer and larger structures that seem out of place.

Since you cannot stop development and improvements to the many lots around Vienna, the only solution to keep residents, both young and old, in Vienna is a better use of our downtown area that is used all over the state in historic areas and the like, that allows for lower costs and taxes paid to live and reside in Vienna. But for some reason, our political machine has for some reason convinced themselves that this is going to hurt Vienna. Why? It has worked in virtually every other town or city all over Virginia, and the sky hasn't fallen. In fact, these outside places are booming with enthusiasm, more and more places to eat, shop, live, work, and a solution to keep from having to travel to places away from Vienna that do nothing but draw out tax dollars away from Vienna and into the hands of people who have no interest in Vienna's future.

Why? Are we that apathetic?

Yes we are.

We need better leaders.

Uhhhh... we're not a city, period.

You can easily replace "town" or "community" into 90% of this list. You do not need to be a "city."

Do you also get upset when your orange juice doesn't taste like apple juice?

Yes. All the time. I am just completely irrational.

Seriously, just because we are one way does not mean improvements cannot be done to make Vienna more vibrant and "liveable."

Actually, I don't think that's true. Vienna's a suburb sitting outside the Beltway. It's never going to be the center of attention, and it doesn't have the population to support such a vision.

While improvements can certainly be made to the Town, at least half that list is completely unrealistic given the town's location and population:

1. No matter what development is proposed, I can't see Vienna without some strip commercial development. Our residential areas will always have lots of cul-de-sacs (something i'm personally thankfully for).

2. We don't have the population size or density to have transit options for getting around town. At best, you have buses for commuters to get to the local job center of Tysons and the Metro to get downtown.

3. I think the scope of "nightlife" here will never be vast - most of the town is either families or old people. We don't close down at 5 pm, but isn't never going to be a

4. I find it doubtful that anyone living outside the Beltway here in suburbia can have a great life without a car and don't see that changing anytime soon.

5. We'll always have surface parking -- particularly FREE off-street parking. Thank god for that!

6. We're not big enough to have quality culture (entertainment, speeches, arts, etc.) and a quality university.

7. As has been stated ad-nauseum on this site, there is little in the way of historic architecture in Vienna... the 'Historic District" is a joke.

8. Given our placement near two interstate thoroughfares, we'll always have noise pollution. At virtually all times of the day, you can hear traffic from I-66 or the Beltway - except when it's drowned out by the local traffic on 123, Nutley, etc... and with the world of suburbia, you'll always hear lawn mowers, leaf blowers, the helicopters going to Inova, etc.

You might not live long with this guy tooling Vienna's streets:

Arrest- Driving on a Revoked License 09-984

Hickory Circle at Cottage Street, SW February 3 10:54 a.m.

Officer Maiorana observed a vehicle commit a traffic infraction by running a stop sign. After the vehicle stopped, Officer Maiorana noted that it was parked in an unsafe location. The driver was asked to move the vehicle and refused.

Officer Maiorana then asked the driver for his information. Investigation revealed that the driver, 36 year old Fredis Ramos of Hickory Circle was driving on a revoked operator’s license due to a DWI.

Mr. Ramos was arrested and transported to the Fairfax County Adult Detention Center
and formally charged with driving on a Revoked Operators License and Failure to Stop for a Stop Sign.

He was released at the detention facility on his personal recognizance.

Do You Think Vienna is Liveable? Apparently, not for HAWKS!!!

Town of Vienna, Virginia Police Department

Media Information Release

Man Arrested for Shooting Hawk out of Tree

On February 7, 2009 while on routine patrol Officer Maiorana of the Vienna Police Department heard a gun shot coming from the yard of a citizen near Courthouse Road and Locust Streets, SW.

He then observed an individual with a shotgun in his hands.

The individual was identified as Thomas R. Shepler, 65, of Locust Street in Vienna. Mr. Shepler shot a hawk out of his tree because it was preying on squirrels in his yard.

Mr. Shepler was arrested and transported to the Fairfax County Adult Detention Center and formally charged with Discharging a Firearm in a Public Place and Cruelty to Animals; both misdemeanors. He was released by the Magistrate on his personal recognizance.

Yes, Vienna is liveable. Great schools, easy access to grocery stores and Tyson's, places for my family to go out to eat, awesome youth sports run by very dedicated volunteer parents, neighborhood swim clubs, nice houses in different price ranges (from expensive to insanely expensive, anyway), parks, playgrounds, access to DC, access to Great Falls Park, access to airports. Yup. Works for me.

yes -

I could probably make a strong case that Vienna was MORE liveable 20 years ago: less crime (re: Cedar Lane Shopping Center used to be nice), less traffic, clothing stores for men, women & children, movie theater, etc.

Yes, sports are great and there are a fair number of decent restaurants but do we really need to strive "works for me?" There has got to be better criteria than that.

Dear Yes,

Everything you list are also available to the communities of Mclean and Oakton, you know what I mean, but without the double taxation.

Dear Wyltn:

You are right, except for the additional tax lumped into real estate taxes in McLean for the McLean community center, the monthly trash and recycling collection fees that must be paid to a private collection company, paying a private snow removal service, unless you prefer waiting until snow melts to have your side street plowed in a storm, and a few other things.

Except for those minor items, you know what I mean, you are right.

McLean and Oakton have much higher housing prices. We looked in McLean but bought in Vienna because we got twice as much house here. Same with Oakton. Re higher taxes, at least our streets get plowed right away. Laugh, if you want, but I live on the town border, and my street is plowed - the one a block away isn't. I can get out in bad weather. To me, that's worth a lot. And yes, "works for me" IS enough to strive for. I'm an average resident - mid 30's, 3 little kids, a patron of local stores, schools, and services. It works really well here for families. I don't think "downtown Fairfax" however you define that is so family friendly. The stores are cute, but you can't really walk there from many neighborhoods, and the traffic is ghastly. Nowhere is perfect. Vienna works for me.

Yes,

If your house was priced low, I'm betting it's only because it was older than the other houses you looked at. Houses in Oakton and Fairfax are typically a lot less expensive than Vienna (about $100,000 in our case for the same type of house), and rightly so with Vienna having the metro nearby and being closer to the beltway. Fairfax City has the cheapest taxes in the area at about $0.34 less or so per $100 of assessed value than Vienna and they have the things you mentioned like snow removal, etc, plus they have a great downtown, an active government, and also still have great fairfax county schools. On a $500,000 home that's a savings of $1700 per year! I agree that Vienna has more "potential" for walkability than Fairfax or Oakton, but if I'm going to pay this much extra in taxes and a premium on my home than adjacent areas, I want something more than just "it works". I want the town to be great and as vibrant and walkable as it can be. I think Vienna was voted #4 of all small towns in America once because they thought the town had good bones, and a lot of potential thinking the town green would be the start of something more. They even mentioned potential redevelopment in the magazine's write up. Unfortunately though very little else has been done with redevelopment and the ratings for Vienna have completely slipped off the chart, unlike places like Naperville which stay on there year after year. For someone like me who bought a house here after the town was rated highly and not too long after they did their redevelopment studies, the council's inaction has been like an april fools joke. I want people who are actually going to work to make Vienna better, not just keep things working and status quo. If I wanted that, I would have moved somewhere else for a lot less money.

http://www.disastercenter.com/virginia/crime/13793.htm

Seems crime is down in Vienna from the 1990s. If you want to attribute it to Vienna incompetence, it's down in Herndon, Fairfax City, and Fairfax County, too.

Unless the past 3 years have seen an unusual spike in crime ... the folks who post stories from the police blotter don't seem to be providing any context.

Did anyone try typing in an address in Walkscore.com?

I did, I typed in maple avenue, vienna, va and got a
Walk Score: 68 out of 100 — Somewhat Walkable

Check it out:
http://walkscore.com/get-score.php?street=maple+avenue%2C+vienna%2C+va

Funny - as the saying goes..."life is not always greener on the other side"

Clarendon today
Some people claim that Clarendon is an excellent example of smart growth and transit-oriented development. It has been speculated that the term "urban village" was coined in reference to the plans for modern Clarendon. Yet some residents argue that these terms conceal part of the story, as businesses serving residents' needs (hardware store, drug store, dry cleaner, ice cream parlor, etc.) have been faced with displacement by high-rises and businesses luring people from outside the neighborhood.
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarendon,_Virginia