Class Warfare in Vienna ...

So true. There are benefits to teardowns, but also costs. "New, expensive houses may cause assessments to increase in the neighborhood. And, teardowns may reduce the stock of affordable housing." Interesting/related info:

http://www.preservationnation.org/issues/teardowns/additional-resources/teardowns_executive_summary.pdf

Too much elitism and too many elitists in Vienna. First thing that goes up after a family moves into a new McMansion is the "Protected by XYZ Security" sign. The McMansion owners usually have little or nothing to do with the rest of the neighborhood.

Many of those people who lived in those homes originally have traded up and now these homes being bought by new young families moving into Vienna. There may be a class warfare in terms of income, but I don't see that any particular age group is tied to older or newer houses in Vienna.

Who's to blame? Start with the Reagan-Bush Yuppies who started "Resegregation through Gentrification." a quarter century ago.

Vienna's history is more than just class warfare, it was race warfare. Just look at their beloved phony baloney historic district -- drawn on racial lines to a tee. There is no black history recognized in Vienna, except a few memorials added to grave sites decades after honoring all of the "white" history and only after criticism came their way. All just the way Maud and henchman Seeman wanted it -- lily white.

"They feel disconnected and sad."

Cry me a river! The old farts who vote in Vienna, and who run Vienna, are not disconnected and sad, they are bitter, angry and for the most part not very intelligent. How else could a voting block vote for the same old sh** year after year, decade after decade with their heads buried in the sand while the rest of the County modernizes...and Vienna actually goes backward? Are we supposed to call people like that smart?

Fairfax County moved on people. The game of dink houses built 50 years ago filled with Federal employees is over. If Vienna doesn't get redeveloped in some way it will be a barrio. Opps, maybe it is already there in many sections!

Vienna needs a little Clarendon and Reston Towne Center mentality over empty grocery stores and cheezy mattress shops on every corner. What's next for Vienna? Massage joints on every corner? That will be the sign that Vienna is really headed up!

Signed a proud elitist.

hey 'Too Much Elitism' if vienna actually controlled the rampant gang crap and el salvador youth gone wild...maybe security systems would not be needed. sorry for naming the ethnicity responsible for so much in vienna...i know the truth can be very politically incorrect.

What do we say about those of us who do rebuild and, yet, we are still connected to schools, neighborhoods and people?! We do not put up 6 foot tall privacy fences or install security systems.

We actually may be normal people who send our kids to public schools but still want to live in a new house?! But, yes, this is now made out to be the new "greed." Whatever.

Some of us don't think old is always better. We like the maintenance free exteriors and energy efficient appliances and building materials. I've lived in "very" old almost my entire life and I very much enjoy the "new" house I now live in with my family.

The elitists want inexpensive services, ranging from cheap landscaping to cut-rate child care. They want nothing to do with the people who provide these services. In case you wondered why Rt 66 out past Manassas and Rt 7 out past Sterling are bumper-to-bumper at rush hours.

i vote for happy ending massage on every vienna corner!

The elitists want inexpensive services, ranging from cheap landscaping to cut-rate child care. They want nothing to do with the people who provide these services. In case you wondered why Rt 66 out past Manassas and Rt 7 out past Sterling are bumper-to-bumper at rush hours.

The elitists got that way by being smart with their money. If you want a service and someone delivers it for a price, what's the complaint? Are we supposed to pay hole diggers like doctors? The market system we have doesn't agree with you there. So if the folks who deliver child care and landscaping want to charge more, this is America, they are free to try. But if they don't get their higher price, and they want more money, maybe they need a new career choice? Or they could just keep whining about those evil richies who are bad, bad, bad.

Also, you are not actually blaming people in Vienna who can afford a 1.5M home for the landscapers and daycare workers being stuck in traffic on 66 are you?

Lastly, explain that logic again about the doctors and attorneys not meshing socially with the non-English speaking landscapers ("want nothing to do" line)? Before you get drilled on this want to make sure that your thought process is as bad as it appears...

WOW! There's actually a proactive and good coversation bantering about on the website! Kudos!

This really is an issue that the Town needs to be discussing - Obviously, there are diverse opinions, and no surprise, people are at odds...On the one hand, I'm sorry I stirred up a hornet's nest, on the other hand, somebody needed to hit it with a stick!

The first way to SOLVE a problem is to ADMIT it. Sounds like we're in "Stage One," We admit there is a problem!

Not to go on and on via Blog, but I do believe that escalating single family lot prices have been forcing our elders out of our Town.

Suppose as an alternative, we offered well-built, close in, affordable condos with ADA access? Could we not happily include our elder citizens, and encourage them to stay here with those amenities?

Vienna was a town where working people, middle class, upper middle class could co-exist. Yuppie elitists want nothing to do with the middle class. Name of the game is resegregation through gentrification.

Does anyone here want to come with me next week to place flags on the graves of African American soldiers who died in our Country's Service?

It's a Memorial Day thing, and I could use a helper!

I have a map of the graves, and do it every year - But could Always Use Company!

Vienna was a town where working people, middle class, upper middle class could co-exist. Yuppie elitists want nothing to do with the middle class. Name of the game is resegregation through gentrification.

Vienna was definitely not anything like what you say. Vienna had one kind of home before Steve Bukont started building new homes in the mid 1990s (followed by others like Staats and Brehoney). All homes were the same before that. All incomes were basically the same.

The change has happened since 1995. Why? For one Fairfax County's population tripled during the last 15 years. That is a game changer. Also, wealth in the area, starting with the tech boom, changed the game too. So Jerry, Julie, Barry (same person) sorry you don't have what you want in life, but you are the one practicing class warfare. What do you actually want beyond bitching? Some kind of government plan to take from those evil richies to be given to the day care workers followed by forced friendship programs that connect people in unnatural ways?

You are a bizarre thinker pal.

Good Job! Now we're talkin!

"Social Logic," you appear particularly upset and
angry -You seem to me to be overly aggressive for this conversation, and you've used some unattractive language-- You have called our voters "Old Farts," and claimed (?) that Vienna "history" has been defined upon Racial Lines.

I don't see that at all -- In fact, I have asked anyone on this site (so far, NO TAKERS) to join me in putting American Flags on the African American Veterans graves for Memorial Day.

It's so easy to Post mid-day and SAY something, yet apparently so much harder harder to get up in the morning and actually DO something...

Fifty years ago there were many different size and style homes in Vienna and in the other towns along the W O & D. This was a middle class community.

Well, I see something good is coming out of this thread. We learn that the Elitists are reading HistoricVienna.COM.

Does anyone know which town, on an island, in New England has a "dress down" policy so everyone fits in?

C'mon, All homes/incomes and homes in Vienna were the same before Bukont? Wha? Vienna had a number of new developments in the 70's. Take a drive on Vale and Lawyers and Buelah. Used to be a day when your teachers, police and butchers were your neighbors. Now they can't afford to live here. Want a starter home in Vienna - sorry, you need $500K for a lot. Why folks need 6000-10000 sf homes is beyond me.

Vienna's First Elitist, Maude Robinson, started the movement to remove middle class "undesireables" from Vienna many years ago.

Suppose as an alternative, we offered well-built, close in, affordable condos with ADA access? Could we not happily include our elder citizens, and encourage them to stay here with those amenities?

Who is this "we" that should be offering these condos?

Why folks need 6000-10000 sf homes is beyond me.

Which is precisely why YOU do not have to live in a house that big. I don't live in a house that big, either, but it is new and I like it.

Why do you care?! I don't care if you don't tear down your house - why should you care if I do?!

Vienna had a number of new developments in the 70's. Take a drive on Vale and Lawyers and Buelah

Outside Vienna. Until Bukont started building his homes, there really wasn't a whole lot of infill/teardowns in Vienna.

On a completely different note, I like my house being somewhat unique/different. I enjoy architecture and love to drive around and look at all the pretty houses. Obviously, you may not care and function is all that interests you. It's a big, free world with lots of options. Why sh&t on your neighbor for doing something he wants to do?!

The Yups decided they couldn't live in anything less than 8000 sf with 9 bathrooms. They were deprived growing up, lived in 3500 sf with only 3 bathrooms.

C'mon, All homes/incomes and homes in Vienna were the same before Bukont? Wha? Vienna had a number of new developments in the 70's. Take a drive on Vale and Lawyers and Buelah. Used to be a day when your teachers, police and butchers were your neighbors. Now they can't afford to live here. Want a starter home in Vienna - sorry, you need $500K for a lot. Why folks need 6000-10000 sf homes is beyond me.

First, these areas you describe are not Vienna 22180, which is the topic here. Second, the 1970s? That was nearly 40 years ago. Used to be a day when teachers, police and butchers were your neighbors? Sure was, but not in a community like Vienna now. Why is that? The Vienna Town Council ONLY wants single family residential homes taking up on average 16000 sq ft of land. Guess what? THAT is why teachers, police and butchers don't live in 22180 now. How can it change? Well, for one not everyone gets to live in a single family house. Where can they live? In Vienna there are NO other options because the VTC has decried NO multi-family homes (i.e. condos and town houses). Bottom line? Market forces say the 22180 land is worth a lot more than the 1970s. You can like that or not like that, but the market is going to value like the market wants to value. That's capitalism. If the politicians wanted to have more diversity in their housing stock (and clearly they don't) they would have some new condos and town houses in the last decade. So stop your whining about yuppies (your anger at not having the money you want in your life) and start asking the VTC why their policies have driven out teachers and policeman.

Lastly, for Vienna Town limits it was Bukont who started, and this was a progressive start in the mid 1990s, the new 1M+ homes. His homes started the ball rolling. And if you don't like the new 6000 sq ft houses, tough luck, the die has been cast.

The flags displayed around Vienna are shameful. Flags stuck in the ground and left to deteriorate for months. Flags displayed between bushes or left out in all weather without being iluminated. Where are all the flags we saw on cars and and houses when Bush's war started. What respect is there for the Fallen when your Vice President Cheney when confronted with 5000 dead retorted "SO!" Perhaps you should be going to the military hospitals and consoling those who are still sacrficing their lives for you.

Bukont was not the first to start the infill building in Vienna. Roger DeMarco built many new houses as well as Sekas. FYI: Charlie Robinson, in casual conversation was overheard to say that we need to do something about the big houses that will be built. He had a clue that change was coming. Since most houses proper in Vienna did not cover the twenty five percent coverage, no one really envisioned what a large house could be built to that standard. Move the house closer to the street and eliminate the long driveway coverage and you can use that square footage for the main structure. The only thing that I consider illegal is the hilling up of dirt to beat the height limitation.

Good Debate! The point of the original Post is well-taken. AND, "Social Logic," we turn the leaf and find ourselves on the same page.

BTW,"Dan," that was a good observation - It's perhaps not Class Warfare in terms of age, so much as income.

Social Logic is correct in his/her last Post.

No one is WRONG to want a newer, larger home. I live in a newer, larger home myself, and I like it here. I don't define myself as an "elitist."

But no one is backward or stupid or flawed in anyway to opt for a smaller, older home.

I know, Rodney King is King, buy "Hey, Can't we all just get along?"

Vienna zoning DOES mandate only single family homes, and the cost of land (even in this recession) IS rising.

So, yes, without condos, townhomes, or perhaps even artfully designed duplexes, whereby a 1.2 home is actaully TWO 600k dwellings - We are destined to become an homogenous community with no teachers, no live-in police, and no butchers.

These folk will just be relegated to drive in from afar, adding traffic and congestion and pollutants to our already crowded roads....

If all these elitists mean we have more varied and interesting retail along Maple, I am all for it.

Check your logic about wanting to move from a large home to a smaller home. If a large family has left the nest why would the parents remain in an oversized house. The retired usually have a diminished income and cannot afford the upkeep of a large house and yard. They may even be interested in lowering their consumption of energy. McMansion owners beware, I have seen homes that had the water evaporate from the shower and toilet traps because they were unused. The traps are included in the plumbing design to prevent sewer gases from entering the premises.

Sure, let's allow lots of tear-downs and replace single family homes owning 2 vehicles with infill condos owning 35 vehicles on the same lot. See what Vienna's streets look like then.

How about duplexes and triplexes? Wouldn't they work?

Most new homes in Vienna are between 3200 - 4000 sq ft above ground. The size of our lots and the requirement of no more than 25% lot coverage generally does not allow for larger homes. 6000 - 10000 sqaure foot homes (and again, I am counting above grade, as the basements are underground) simply don't and can't exist in the Town of Vienna. with very few (Count 'em on one hand) exceptions. You would need close to an acre or more of land to do that.

Where are all the flags we saw on cars and and houses when Bush's war started. What respect is there for the Fallen when your Vice President Cheney when confronted with 5000 dead retorted "SO!" Perhaps you should be going to the military hospitals and consoling those who are still sacrficing their lives for you.

*** The Internet claps its hands ***

Who's to blame? Start with the Reagan-Bush Yuppies who started "Resegregation through Gentrification." a quarter century ago.

What is this guy smoking? This town has been racially segregated and politically racially biased for as long as I can remember, and it still is. I don’t mean the whole town is still living in the past, but I will state that older white elitist voters are very sly and careful how the display their racial biases. Of course, they have to put on appearances of acceptance and tolerance, but just because they now allow African Americans into the Freeman Store (yes the town used to keep African Americans out of many of the white establishments) doesn't mean that they have changed anything regarding their true feelings regarding the treatment of African Americans living and working in Vienna.

One post has correctly stated that the Town's beloved Historic District was drawn up intentionally keeping the African American homes out of the Historic Zone. Given what is obvious regarding the historic significance that African Americans have contributed much in Vienna's past, it is hardly a triumph for anyone walking around the Historic District on the Walk on the Hill, to think we have anything to parade about. Does anyone dare wander beyond the signage put up by Maud Robinson, in an effort to thumb her nose at the group of anti-historic dissenters who wanted out of the district? If you cared to explore the older homes beyond the signage, you will see the older homes that our past African Americans still live in and you might begin to wonder why their homes are not in the district.

Does anyone care about the fact that that the northwest neighborhood was almost entirely 100% African American years ago, with it's own African American school (Louise Archer) and even a thriving African American house of prostitution near Pleasant and Lovers Lane that was allowed to stay open because the white mayor just loved to go there and abuse his power in the "all black" neighborhood.

Does any of this ever get printed on the printed handouts that the social garden club elitists give away on the Walk?

Why were the boundaries of the Windover Heights Historic District drawn in 1979 to exclude properties owned by long time African-American families? The evidence is clear of this exclusion:

1. Historic District boundary on Orchard Street drawn on white/African-American lines.
2. Historic District boundary on West Street drawn on white/African-America lines.
3. Original African-American school Louise Archer in NW left out of District.
4. New Union Baptist Church on Pleasant Street left out of District.
5. First Baptist Church on Orchard Street left out of District.
6. African-American West End Cemetery in NW left out of historic District.
7. African-American Sons & Daughters Cemetery in NW left out of historic District.
8. All deep-rooted African-American properties in NW Vienna on West Street, Orchard Street, Nutley Street, Malcolm Road, Highland Street and Lincoln Street were left out of the historic District.
9. West family home (on West Street) was destroyed in the 1980s with no preservation effort from Laine Hyde or Historic Vienna, Inc. The property was turned into multiple single-family homes.

There is a book, that was brought to the attention of this site, written by a former resident of Vienna, Henry Minor, and those who wish to try and understand the towns treatment of its African American residents should read it. But you won’t find it in the Freeman Store, even though this establishment thinks it is on the leading front of the real history of Vienna. Henry Minor has written the only first hand account of Vienna's history from the 1930s until 2000 (mostly up through the late 60s). Little Town in Virginia: It Started in Vienna (written in 2001!) primarily places the reader during the time when segregation was in full effect. This book was brought to our attention & recommended by students at The University of Virginia.

This is the kind of history (read: non-white) that Maud Robinson and Laine Hyde don't want you to read. For example, today an attempt was made to document with pictures the books carried in the Town of Vienna's Freeman Store. We were curious if they carry Henry Minor's book. A woman behind the counter at the Freeman Store (which is owned by the Town of Vienna) ordered "no pictures". She called the Police to enforce her order. Will the Town of Vienna do anything to uphold their fake history?

Historic Vienna Post:
http://www.historicvienna.com/2007/05/little_town_in_virginia_it_sta.html

You may be thinking that this is all taken out of proportion and silly, because, anyone can notice that the Town of Vienna cannot be all that bad, look at the fact that George Lovelace is on council and has been re-elected time and time again. For those of you who don't ever wonder why or how, I invite you to sit and witness the town council in action, and I don't mean just sitting through just one meeting and leaving and using that as your basis for making a sound determination of whether this town is really desegregated.

If you sit through the meetings, you will witness the actual browbeating that have occurred time and time again when George Lovelace steps out of lock step with Maud Robinson. He even apologized once when he voted against Maud on an issue, and Maud pulled her microphone to her lips(completely out of order per Robert's Rules of Order) and immediately informed Lovelace of his transgressions, and suggested (strongly) that he reconsider, and he immediately did, explaining and laughing that he really didn't understand the vote and was confused, so he wanted to recast and change his vote.

This is not an uncommon behavior for Maud Robinson. After one vote, a couple of years back, Maud rushed into one committee meeting and verbally thrashed Melvin R. McCoy, Jr., after he voted on a certain issue. It was obviously not the way Maud Robinson wanted him to vote, so she yelled and berated him. Now tell me, is that proper or polite or appropriate? To me, it shows how Maud really thinks. She treated him no better that, say perhaps, an elderly person might have treated a black yard boy who was acting out of line years ago. Was she witness to such behavior from some elderly person of significance in her life when she was a little girl? Where did she learn this behavior, and more importantly, why do the African American residents let her get away with it? Maybe it's because the too few of the 3% of African Americans do have any real influence on Vienna politics, and it is clear that our elected African American councilman, Lovelace is there by the pleasure of Maud Robinson only.

So, you see, he is elected by Maud's white voting block, because they know, and Maud knows he will only act and vote the way she wants him to. There have been many times when George Lovelace starts talking and begins to say something along the line that he actually can see a world in Vienna where he might make a difference, but every time, this is immediately stopped by Maud’s quick reproaches, and George is put back on track. He is Vienna White’s older established token black, and as long as he remains in step with Maud, he will continue to be re-elected.

How would any self-respecting African American even consider voting to keep homes, residences, and structures out of the "White Only" historic district? His house is but a block away from the district, and is much older than many of the homes on the district, and is much the same as the remaining houses that have not been torn down, yet it is not in the district? Why does he support Maud's White Only Zone? So he can get re-elected. Simple. Do you think he would have a chance on his own to run without Maud's white elitist voting block? He knows that if he votes out of line, he doesn't get Maud's White Voting Block, and won't get reelected. He is there by the pleasure of Robinson, and he knows that.

This post is about the segregation of Vienna, and folks, it has nothing to do with how big your house is or that crap: Resegregation through Gentrification.

As long as Maud and her older established supporters are alive and vote the way she wants them to vote, Vienna will not change. It will remain quietly segregated, and biased against the real issues that are important to not only African Americans, but also minorities of all races, simple because Maud doesn't want any change, and does not want Vienna to develop in any way that will be prosperous for all Vienna residents, white or black. So by force, by vote, and by threat, Vienna will never have any true black voice or leadership importance until Maud's White Voting Block either dies or leaves Vienna.

Well, that's not entirely true, if more younger voters get out to vote, and vote for issues that are really and seriously good for Vienna, we might see some change that is good for Vienna and good for the few remaining African Americans that live in Vienna and chose to continue to reside there. In an earlier post, HV reported on the numbers of African-Americans living in Vienna.

Vienna Demographics After 53 Years of Robinson Control
Perhaps no one cares, but...
9.51% - African-American population in Herndon
9.20% - African-American population in Leesburg
8.83% - African-American population in Fairfax County
6.89% - African-American population in Loudon County
5.07% - African-American population in Fairfax City
3.44% - African-American population in Vienna

“Said another way, 85,628 African-Americans live in Fairfax County and 497 African-Americans live in Vienna. Only 497: How did Vienna get this way?

“You know I always get a little edgy when I hear the word ‘HUD' mentioned.”
-- Maud Robinson

"The politicians can then say to the blacks and union members "hey, don't look at me", while it's wink wink to the gays."
-- Tom Seeman
Maud's Election Day Campaigner & Mayor's Son

“And it defied comprehension how anyone could say that we have not tried beyond trying to make the lives of black people in particular better since the mid-fifties, with the trend accelerating greating [sic] from 1964 on. Trillions of dollars, program after program, quota after quota (excuse me, "diversity")."
-- Tom Seeman
Maud's Election Day Campaigner & Mayor's Son

Tom, no worries. You and the rest of the Vienna political establishment made sure that "diversity" is a four letter word in Vienna. We have a funny feeling that when census data is pulled for the last 50 years of Mother Maud's reign that there will be a year after year precipitous drop in the African-American population of Vienna.”

The ever decreasing numbers of African American should be important to the leadership in Vienna, but until we get some real leaders that are not sitting in the seat to abuse their positions and simply and blindly push Maud’s elitist agenda, the Town of Vienna will continue to push out the African Americans who wish to stay in Vienna. In a sense, it is the voters who wish to keep the African Americans down in Vienna, because that is what Maud’s White Voting Block supports, because they support her and her cronies, and because they are supporting her, they have always supported and allowed Maud Robinson to rule in her abusive and maniacal manner.

No sane leader would act this way, and no intelligent voters would allow her to get away with her behavior unless they feel and think the same way she does. So if you think Vienna was or is triumphant in the recent winning of the Historic Vienna court case that was filed against the TOV, you are simply part of the problem. By supporting this zoned district, you are supporting a district that by it's charter, whether spoken or written, is racially biased against our own African American residents, and I, for one, don't think this is worth celebrating. Maud Robinson, on the other hand, does.

Sure, let's allow lots of tear-downs and replace single family homes owning 2 vehicles with infill condos owning 35 vehicles on the same lot. See what Vienna's streets look like then.

If you have an entire community built around the car, with zero walk-ability, surprise that there is too much car use. Remember, the Maud and her cronies built Vienna around the idea that could drive your big ole Chevy up to the front door of s strip mall. VTC policies have produced nothing that resembles pedestrian friendly anything from housing to commercial. So what exactly do you want except to gripe and or go back to a point in history that is no longer there? We get it. You don't like your money situation, don't like big homes, and don't want any REAL solutions that bring diversity to housing stock. If we follow your ass-backwards logic these "problems" are all the result of Reagan creating yuppies? Even when Fairfax just voted 60% for Obama? Pal, you are a nut.

Also, it looks like that you have 9 posts in this thread coming from different names. I don't know for sure, but it sure seems that way. Why not just stick to one name in this thread? No one thinks there is an army of people in here supporting your view.

Sure, let's allow lots of tear-downs and replace single family homes owning 2 vehicles with infill condos owning 35 vehicles on the same lot. See what Vienna's streets look like then.

BTW sound planning, the kind of thing done outside of Vienna, the kind of thing done by politicians with intelligence, would pick particular areas, both residential and commercial, for higher density residential units. The notion that this would be done all over or randomly is the exact same fear tactic that the idiots who sit on VTC have used for 4 decades. So thanks for offering no solution except more of the same fear that galvanizes the crusty Vienna voters who mobilize every year to preserve the fantasy.

Maudie configured Vienna to look like Mayberry circa 1963, no minorities, just a few local white eccentrics and activists who Maudie's bloated police department keeps close watch over. Even the local newspaper refrains from printing photos of minorities, have you noticed?

The current lot of VTC have no real fears of smart growth, improvements, higher density construction, commercial change, etc. They are against this change, and not for any reason except they don't want change of any sort.

No change in water costs, no change in reducing tax burden on residents, no change in traffic safety and flow, no change in smart commercial growth, no change in sidewalks to allow all our children to walk the 2-6 blocks to school, no change in any efforts to reduce the horrible cut-through traffic in Vienna, no change in developing better ways to keep MS-13 out of Vienna... the list is longer...

The voters that have kept Maud Robinson seated until recently have voted to keep her seated simply because these old people don't like change. They like their favorite parking spots along the expansive spans of black asphalt, their favorite watering holes, their favorite strip mall shopping, their favorite churches, and country clubs, and they are used to the way they have been for years and are afraid of change. This is true all over the country, and Vienna does not hold a monopoly over this outdated behavior. Until we get more younger voters out to vote, things will not change. Maud has stepped down, yes, but her hand-picked cronies have not. Jane Seeman, Howard Springsteen, George Lovelace,Laurie Cole, Edyth Kelleher, and even Michael Polychrones, (and it is rumored that DiRocco will also blindly follow in Maud's footsteps, but this writer, will wait and see), have all been hand picked and vetted by Maud Robinson and as long as we have these members who are afraid to voice and act in any way to stray from Maud's Elite Older WASP voters country club system, Vienna will not change.

I challenge anyone to print any facts to reveal that any of these cronies have ever acted to push any agenda that is good for Vienna and actually get anything passed that is different from the no change policy Maud Robinson has enforced and succeeded in getting away with for decades.

If anyone of these VTC people ever get the idea that they can actually fight and spearhead real smart growth and change that is good for all of Vienna, you will see them NOT re-elected the next go around. Even Michael Polychrones knows this and will chose to sit back quietly and do nothing, because, he is allowed to keep his seat in his quietness. Dissent will not be tolerated. It's a pity we don't have the meetings on Cable and Online, like the rest of Northern Virginia, so Vienna can see how Maud gets away with this. I wonder who will keep Lovelace in line now, since Maud won't be there to keep him from making mistakes. Maybe she will sit in the audience, maybe George will have to wear a listening device? Who knows. Maybe it will be Howard's job to keep him in line. Maybe Laurie Cole will...

Just because she has stepped down, doesn't mean she has lost control of her Older White WASP Country Club Elite Voting Block. You got to hand it to her, she's a powerful person who gets what she wants, and it's a pity we have such voter apathy in Vienna that this relatively small group of gray hairs and government do-nothings get away with this year after year.

So until we get smarter, younger voters out to vote who see the abuses, we won't get any change.

By some of these comments I understand more clearly why Vienna looks like a dump on Maple Ave. You class warfare people are just angry and blame others for YOUR lack of success! I hope your happy because we are all enjoying the fruits of your bitterness!

In your post above:
even a thriving African American house of prostitution near Pleasant and Lovers Lane that was allowed to stay open because the white mayor just loved to go there and abuse his power in the "all black" neighborhood.

Who was this "white mayor?" Does anyone know? Is it written in Henry Minor's book? Did this mayor leave any ill-legitimate children around? If so, who are they, and do they still live here in Vienna? I smell a book here, maybe a movie. Darn, this old town of Vienna is just to quaint for it's own good. Puulleeeeeeze, somebody look up these answers and post ASAP!!!!!!!!

Can you post here? I am unable to locate this book? Why is this book not in the Freeman House, are they really that prejudiced against african-americans in Vienna?

Will these posts be enough to force Lillis, Laine Hyde, D. Scarborough,Anne Stuntz, Sarah Jane Brady,Michael Cheselka,Daniel Dellinger,Mildred Monahan,Rose Mulville,Maud Robinson,Daphne Sloan, Paul Snodgrass, etc to sell this book in their private bookstore?

Where is a good reporter when you need one? I guess Trompeter really can't type his way out of paper bag. ;)

You wish to venture why we have so many unhappy people in Vienna as these posters will suggest?

click here and see if these people appear happy to you?

http://www.historicvienna.com/historic_vienna_inc/walk_on_the_hill/

How can anyone takes these people seriously. I mean, seriously, take them, take them all away.....

Curious George,

The book is at Patrick Henry Library if you want to read it.

Okay - ONLY 22180 topics can be discussed here, gotcha. Capitalism is great, greed is good ("trees and grass don't pay property taxes")and it is a big/free world, but you have to acknowledge that teardowns have some negative impact. I guess what makes me angry is that middle-class families no longer can buy homes in the communities where they grew up.

What's scary is that you don't seem to care about those who are impacted and your mentality that success = making a lot of $/having stuff is sad. If you don't tough luck you loser - move on - go live in a condo in Manassas.

Please, I have sound middle-class values. I'm not whining or angry because you make more money than I do. I'm thankful & blessed with what I have and think it's more important to be a great spouse/parent, volunteer in my community, pay my taxes, etc. I work for a great non-profit that doesn't pay much, but saves lives everyday. So, I'm just making it in 22180. I may not be a millionaire, but I consider myself a success (and a teardown holdout). Perhaps you are the jealous/angry one?

I recently moved to Vienna. My wife and I made this move because we like Vienna a heck of a lot more than the other towns around here. Now that we are here, we've been surprised by what we are learning about the Town Council.

As new residents, we aren't familiar with all of the history. So, excatly why is Maud so powerful? Is she handing out bags of money or something? Does she have anything other than a boney finger to point at you? And, why would people be so attached to being on Town Council? If Maud doesn't like what you do and you lose your voter support, so what? Is it a paid gig or something? What I'm asking is here is what is the core motivation behind all of this? I can't believe it is simply because we are dealing with crotchity old racists.

This topic is something that has always interested me about Vienna. And I thought that I was the only one. Glad to see that I'm not. I recently learned from my wife about the class distinction within the Town. Apparently, the parents of some Archer students 'look down' on some the parents of students that attend Vienna Elementary. The Archer parents tend to have larger, nicer homes and the moms tend to be stay at home mothers. While the Vienna Elementary parents have older, smaller homes and usually both parents work. And Archer has these 'fancy fundraising galas'. Wow, who knew? I don't know if those demographics above are correct, but 497 isn't a lot of African-Americans. But honestly, it's more than I thought lived in the Town. Anyway, as I have said before, it would be nice to have a more diverse Town, but until then, I'll continue to be '1 of 5 Black Guys in Vienna'.

I work for a great non-profit that doesn't pay much, but saves lives everyday.

Ah, the truth comes out. You work for a non-profit, like that somehow means instant respect and is of a higher order than for profit business. Maybe you need to do a better job of analyzing yourself because your comments come off as one who simply wants to bitch about people having more than you.

Also, you did not address the explanation for why Vienna's housing stock lacks diversity. Fondly remembering your youth while ignoring today's problems...well you will have to come to grips with that.

It's not that only 22180 can be discussed, but that was what was being discussed. So when you brought in other communities to back your opinion about 22180...you get called out on it.

The Archer parents tend to have larger, nicer homes and the moms tend to be stay at home mothers. While the Vienna Elementary parents have older, smaller homes and usually both parents work. And Archer has these 'fancy fundraising galas'.

I was always under the impression the LA parents thought they were 'better' because of the GT program. The whole thing about my 8 year old is GT, therefore, my whole world is validated. In 2007-08 school year, 45.77% of the school was GT and only 39% was general education. That is a whole lot of kids coming from different areas of town. So, the housing theory doesn't exactly ring true.

Also, there sure are some fancy new 1M+ houses in Vienna ES's boundaries - many more "McMansions" than in LA's boundaries. Just sayin'.

p.s. One 70th anniversary gala later is hardly worth lumping LA into some sort of "snooty" gala category.

Working for a non-profit doesn't demand instant respect, nor is it of a higher order - just shows that making money isn't my #1 priority. For that I should be relegated to living in bad neighborhoods, commute an hour, and forced out of the community I grew up in but you have taken over? Well, it is what it is.

Why does Vienna's housing stock lack diversity? You can argue that a campaign of large capital forces moving poor people (especially of color) out, is a subtle form of racism, but I'm not going to go as far as to sling accusations of racism at individuals because of their associations or circumstances. Let's point to gentrification. The movement of more affluent individuals into 22180 (via these teardowns) has caused some of these demographic shifts, including an increase in the median income and a decline in the proportion of racial minorities. Seems like it's more about getting rid of the less affluent whites AND blacks. Those that control the economic and political power could care less where they go, just get them off that valuable property and stay out of our town.

I don't have to analyze myself. I'm just happy that I'm not an elitist and find reward in helping and giving back to those who are less fortunate. You'll forgive me if my shabby lil' home drags down your property values.

Both Marberry 1963 and Smart Growth 1993 are anti-middle class. What's wrong with building duplexes and triplexes? They are unbearably middle class to the Maudie Elitists and Smart Growth Elitists.

I was looking t the page forward above, and was wondering who the top person is?

http://www.historicvienna.com/historic_vienna_inc/walk_on_the_hill/

This person is a elected politician...?

Town Councilman, Laurie Cole.

I haven't read Mr. Minor's book, but daresay that few (if any) others here have read it either. I did take the time to look it up on amazon.com, and read all of the interior pages that were posted there. I don't know why the Freeman House has chosen not to carry the book, but point out the the second sentence states that the author was born in Vienna in December of 1930, when the snowdrifts "were as high as the porch roof, about nine feet." Surely, had Vienna experienced snow drifts as high as nine feet in the past century, this would be a phenomenon noted elsewhere and remembered by others. This would have been the "storm or the century." The first four pages of the book, no disrespect to Mr. Minor whatsoever, contain a good number of grammatial and punctuation errors, which I could just as easily ascribe to editing as to writing. Nonethe less, it calls the overall literary quality of the book into question.

Mr. Minor does make some valid points in his story. he states that "Just to set the proper time frame, this was nineteen hundred and forty one, just prior to World War II. It is understood that segregation is the 'law of the land'."

He goes on to say, specifically about Vienna,"For example, there was a beer bar, one of three in the Town known as Faukners,"(Here's one of trip-ups - Were there THREE BARS in the Town, ONE of which was known as "Faulkners," or were there three bars called "Faulkners?" - One can't tell from this sentence...)"A divider was built in the middle of the room, and Whites went in on the right side, and Coloreds went in the left. Both could joke and kid outside, but had separate doors. All that attended the bar, grew up in
the town, most were good friends."

So I'm not saying racial divides weren't here in 1941, I just don't see how (and Mr. Minor seems to concur) that Vienna was any different from any other place. It's sad, it's perhaps embarassing, but I think most towns were segregated in the 1930s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and well into the 70s. The fact that we don't see alot of African American faces on the front pages of our local newspapers today has much more to do with the fact that our AA population is only 3.44%, so we wouldn't expect to see that so often, just as a matter of percentages. I don't blame the Town Council or Vienna Town Policies over the years -

I think its a matter of population shift, socio-economics and land prices rising in NW such that the demographics there have changed dramatically.

In deference to Social Logic, who still sounds like a grinch to me, I sign off...

Dumb Growth Yups and Maudie don't like my 60's vintage 2300 sf rancher with significant environmental upgrades (soon to have rooftop solar water heating)? Put me on Maudie's and Dumb Growth's list of TOV troublemakers. Maudie and the Dumb Growth Yups should move to Arlington and do your Elitist thing where the Elitists rule. Don't 'Clarendon' my neighborhood here. Thank You.

Sigh, read Strunk and Whites book on writing and then maybe you will be able to make a more intelligent review of Mr. Minors' book.

I just finished mining the Amazon.com previews of Mr. Minor's book. He makes some points on page 144 that Social Logic and others on this website could learn from. He starts by criticizing his relatives for not being active in the town's civic functions, then he talks about the great success he had in getting the town government to listen to him. Quoting the book:

"When I lived in the area, I went to City Hall and made my interests known to those in the elected positions. They invited me to join them and they worked well with me. I was able to persuade them to divert money to repair cracked sidewalks to a neighborhood that had no sidewalks. People were requires to walk in the street. Today they have sidewalks. In any community where needs are constantly being met, the decision makers are listening. If no one is talking to them they decide what they think is best for the situation. Objections later usually is the result of the citizenry not taking the time to participate during the preliminary phase of the proposed project. It just makes sense to show an interest in what is planned for your surrounding area whether you own a home or renting."

Maybe you folks should try Mr. Minor's approach instead of just posting negative things on an anonymous website. If it worked for an African-American man in the days of segregation, it might work for you.

I am not trying to state that Vienna was any different in its treatment of African Americans, you miss the point. What is obvious is that our Collective Elitist WASP voting block that Maud Robinson dominates, has allowed her open ill-treatment of minorities in Vienna to run unchecked. She apparently has disdain for people like George Lovelace and Melvin McCoy, else, why wouldn't she treat them with the respect they deserve? She treats them like they were her hired yard boys. That is what is so sad, that we allow her to do this, and up until this year, we have elected her year after year and have allowed her to act and behave in this abusive and corrupt manner. And no one has called her on her actions. That's not admirable, and if you claim Maud Robinson is an admirable person, you are mistaken. Why else do you think these people do not want their meetings taped: so they can get away with this despicable behavior.

And I repeat, even though she has "stepped down" she still holds the reigns.

Howard Springsteen, Laurie Cole, and George Lovelace are her mouth-pieces, and because Polychrones and Kelleher sit back and do-nothing, they are essentially the same: they would rather sit back and do nothing rather than step up to the plate and do the courageous act, and protest, but they have failed, too. So, by their own behavior, they also support Robinson, and if they are honest enough to say so, they will tell you the same.

The Class warfare posted about here, has nothing to do with how big your house is, or how much money you make, it is the result of the abuses of people like Maud Robinson in her abuses and corruption and double standards, when it comes to who gets favors in this town and who doesn't. Look deep into the business dealings of say, Steve Bukont and Doug d'Alexander, and you will see what has caused this type of "warfare" in this town.

Look deeply into the deelings with Robinson's abuses with many longstanding businesses in this town, and you will see corruption and outright abusive behavior, based upon the ability of the Country Club Members like Laine Hyde, Joan Lillis, the Freeman Store and Historic Vienna members to run unchecked over the personal property rights of Vienna Citizens. This is not admirable behavior in any one's book.

The Historic District calamity has been a line in the sand that has been drawn, less so much about the law, and more just a town government run out of control with their abuses and nepotistic corruption. This is what has caused the "class warfare" in this town. Maud knows this, and she is delighted that we sit here on this website and bring up the many and varied irrelevant issues, because she can sit back and relax that we are missing the point, and they keep their corrupt power base unabated and in control.

Where else do you get a governing body have the police present to keep cameras out of the council meetings? Where else to you get a mayor trying to figure out some way of setting a standard to keep honest reporting out of council meetings? Where else to you get a government which refuses and succeeds in keeping its meetings off cable and the internet, with their false argument that they cannot afford it, when they know full well, they can: in fact, both Cox and Verizon pay the town of Vienna almost a half a million dollars per year to do so, and they have been getting this money to do so on their own cable station, for years and years, and yet, no cable televised council meetings? You have to ask yourself, why?

So they can continue to get away with these abuses.

Simple. They cannot afford to air their meetings, because people would see them for what they are, and they would not be re-elected. They would lose their corrupt nest of power.

You disagree? Go investigate these issues, and ask why our meetings are not televised? Go ask Cox, and Verizon. Go to the surrounding governments and ask them how much it costs, and what it takes to do this, and you will learn that Vienna can afford this, and chooses not to by choice: they do not want people to see their abusive and corrupt behavior.

Well, what do you expect from Maude "Smith College Elitist Social Worker Busybody Club Woman" Robinson?

GT Thing: Thanks for the info. You make a very valid point. I'll be sure to share your info with my better half. And maybe she can help better educate the Vienna ES parents. PS: I didn't say that the gala was 'snotty', I said 'fancy'.

Let me respond directly to the title of this thread and close out this discussion. There are classes of people in Vienna and there are bigots. Amen

Okay, but why? Why is this the case? Why do people like Hyde or Robinson or Seeman do the things that they do? As I said, I get that people don't like change and can be stubborn about it. I get that older residents might simply take umbrage to the newer, younger residents and do whatever they can to impede what some might call progress. Sometimes, the establishment just likes to keep itself established. But what is the core motivation here? How do these people, Robinson and her disciples, really benefit from any of this? Do they just need to have something to do with their free time? I can understand a link between a small business owner and arbitrary decisions made as part of the Board of Architectural Review. Short sighted, selfish, silly...sure. But, I can at least see the link between Damon's business and a desire to keep garish (I am appalled that this totally subjective idea is the 'standard' they claim to use in their decisions, by the way) signage off of Maple Avenue. By and large, though, I don't get what it is that any of these folks get from the actions they do or don't take.

What am I missing? Is someone's making money from all of this?

Okay, but why? Why is this the case? Why do people like Hyde or Robinson or Seeman do the things that they do? As I said, I get that people don't like change and can be stubborn about it. I get that older residents might simply take umbrage to the newer, younger residents and do whatever they can to impede what some might call progress. Sometimes, the establishment just likes to keep itself established. But what is the core motivation here? How do these people, Robinson and her disciples, really benefit from any of this? Do they just need to have something to do with their free time? I can understand a link between a small business owner and arbitrary decisions made as part of the Board of Architectural Review. Short sighted, selfish, silly...sure. But, I can at least see the link between Damon's business and a desire to keep garish (I am appalled that this totally subjective idea is the 'standard' they claim to use in their decisions, by the way) signage off of Maple Avenue. By and large, though, I don't get what it is that any of these folks get from the actions they do or don't take. What am I missing? Is someone's making money from all of this?

Unknown if money is being made, but the motivations are pretty clear: political power. That might not motivate you, but if the achievements of your life were not much maybe sitting in those Town Council chairs lording over people would be important to you too. It is very important to these people. But why is that new? It is a political machine and has been for some time. It's run just like a sorority. They like to be top dogs. They like to have the levers of power. How hard is that to grasp? Sure, it is an idiotic way to run a life, but who said this world was devoid of losers and busy bodies?

This has been a good, open productive conversation. Sure, I have not agreed with you all - I have disagreed with many. There are "multitudes of attitudes" here that differ quite widely from my own.

(...not the least, Wlytn, the comment on S&W, which btw was published in 1918- I choose to move on, and this is a Blog, not a letter to the Queen...)

But overall, Good Job!

"Ruminator" said it concisely - " There are classes of people in Vienna, and there are bigots."

Got it.

Where do we go together from here to envision and build a better community for us all?

I do believe that we can all work together and do this!

I propose the hard road of action rather than the easy path of talk to move forward.

Social Logic,

No, nothing new about that at all. I always thought political machines did more than simply perpetuate power for power's sake. I always thought those in power benefited in some tangible way. Either a handout, a payoff, a sweetheart deal, a job for a friend or relative, etc. I just assume that machines continue expressly for the purpose of doling this kind of stuff out. I have certainly seen silly power struggles in school and work environments, but I never expected that I'd see it at this kind of level.

On the flip side, if there really is nothing to this machine other than grumpy old people, it seems like it should be a lot easier to vote them out and make a difference. I know it is hard to do that when those who want to make changes are in the minority, but it can happen in just a few election cycles. A few new members on the TC, new appointments to commissions, and things start moving in the right direction, no?

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist or I'm just oversimplifying. I just don't understand how some blue hairs can have such a stranglehold on this town.

There is evidence that some of these people have benefited:

Note: Mayor Jane Seeman bragged in one of her meetings that Steve Bukont built some bookcases in her house, and she was so very, very happy that she did not have to pay for them. Then lo and behold, Steve Bukont gets sweet-heart deals when it comes to getting special treatment in terms of building heights etc.

Where there's smoke, there's fire, and so far, there has been no concerted effort to investigate the shady back room wheeling and dealing, that is very much the way things are in Vienna, VA.

Are the other people getting anything? You bet.

Polychrones, and Kelleher, both have aspirations of running for state office, and if you equate keeping your seat warm in Vienna TC for many terms and getting absolutely nothing done, to keeping your nose clean and being a shoe in when say Steve Shannon leaves his office for higher aspirations, then that is your motivation. Power for more power's sake.

Kelleher has promised to fix our water price/source problem every time she runs for re-election. She seams so positive, that this is the term, she will get things done. But when she is elected, she sits back, does nothing, and keeps her record clean and devoid of any true leadership or governing. She thinks, and maybe it will work because the voters are so apathetic, that this is the way she gets to higher office in Virginia. Say nothing, do nothing, appear clean and advance to the next step when a vacancy opens. Same thing for Polychrones, but on the other side of the isle.

As for Cole, she loves to rule over people, because she really thinks she is smarter than anyone else in town, and of course, she is there because she is a Maud crony. I would look deeply into her financial back ground. She has some shady dealings with a house/sale/swapping with Bukont a couple of years back, and got very defensive when it was up TC. Mayor Jane Boob got so mad and angry, regarding the questions, that she about had break down, and tried to order the questioner out of the meeting, again trying to filter who asked questions, and what information was allowed to be investigated by our Town.

This site has received several cryptic anonymous emails from the Police department, and other departments in Vienna, that there is ride-spread corruption and back room dealings, but as of yet, I am not sure if the DOJ has been sniffing around to investigate. God knows, someone should, the TOV won't police itself other than sweeping under the carpet. In fact, when it was determined that there was a concerted effort by TOV vote polling people to change the way people cast their votes, the SBE suggested that no investigation be pursued, maybe in an effort to keep the dirty laundry out of the news, and keep Vienna from getting a black eye. These words were not actually spoken, but the reading between the lines from party line members, was clear, that it would be better if the town not do anything regarding this voting problem, even though, Mayor Boob Seaman, bragged how they had gotten away with for years; how Rhoda Stevens was allowed to actually influence votes being cast, and the she (Seeman) didn't care to do anything about, when she did know it was a problem, because it wasn't her responsibility. It wasn't her responsibility even to alert the authorities that she new what was going on, so she bragged that they were able to get away with it year after year.

Now, is that the way to run a town? Is Jane Seeman an admirable person? One Word:
NO!

There is evidence that some of these people have benefited:

Note: Mayor Jane Seeman bragged in one of her meetings that Steve Bukont built some bookcases in her house, and she was so very, very happy that she did not have to pay for them. Then lo and behold, Steve Bukont gets sweet-heart deals when it comes to getting special treatment in terms of building heights etc.

Where there's smoke, there's fire, and so far, there has been no concerted effort to investigate the shady back room wheeling and dealing, that is very much the way things are in Vienna, VA.

Are the other people getting anything? You bet.

Polychrones, and Kelleher, both have aspirations of running for state office, and if you equate keeping your seat warm in Vienna TC for many terms and getting absolutely nothing done, to keeping your nose clean and being a shoe in when say Steve Shannon leaves his office for higher aspirations, then that is your motivation. Power for more power's sake.

Kelleher has promised to fix our water price/source problem every time she runs for re-election. She seams so positive, that this is the term, she will get things done. But when she is elected, she sits back, does nothing, and keeps her record clean and devoid of any true leadership or governing. She thinks, and maybe it will work because the voters are so apathetic, that this is the way she gets to higher office in Virginia. Say nothing, do nothing, appear clean and advance to the next step when a vacancy opens. Same thing for Polychrones, but on the other side of the isle.

As for Cole, she loves to rule over people, because she really thinks she is smarter than anyone else in town, and of course, she is there because she is a Maud crony. I would look deeply into her financial back ground. She has some shady dealings with a house/sale/swapping with Bukont a couple of years back, and got very defensive when it was up TC. Mayor Jane Boob got so mad and angry, regarding the questions, that she about had break down, and tried to order the questioner out of the meeting, again trying to filter who asked questions, and what information was allowed to be investigated by our Town.

This site has received several cryptic anonymous emails from the Police department, and other departments in Vienna, that there is ride-spread corruption and back room dealings, but as of yet, I am not sure if the DOJ has been sniffing around to investigate. God knows, someone should, the TOV won't police itself other than sweeping under the carpet. In fact, when it was determined that there was a concerted effort by TOV vote polling people to change the way people cast their votes, the SBE suggested that no investigation be pursued, maybe in an effort to keep the dirty laundry out of the news, and keep Vienna from getting a black eye. These words were not actually spoken, but the reading between the lines from party line members, was clear, that it would be better if the town not do anything regarding this voting problem, even though, Mayor Boob Seaman, bragged how they had gotten away with for years; how Rhoda Stevens was allowed to actually influence votes being cast, and the she (Seeman) didn't care to do anything about, when she did know it was a problem, because it wasn't her responsibility. It wasn't her responsibility even to alert the authorities that she new what was going on, so she bragged that they were able to get away with it year after year.

Now, is that the way to run a town? Is Jane Seeman an admirable person? One Word:
NO!

This comments lins should be its own topic posting.

Dear Queen, We are speaking of S&W "Elements of Style". I dont't know how old you are but I personally was not privy to the book published in 1918. The book is in continous revision and they are explained in Wikipedia.

Isn't it obvious? We are dealing with a dual system of social, racial, and economic resegregation. Maudie uses the Town police, the Smart Growth Yups use gentrification and the Town police. Want a diverse middle class community? First thing to do is have the Fairfax County PD patrolling the Town. Fairfax County PD does not tolerate racist conduct, e.g., elitists calling in numerous false complaints against minority group members who walk through elitist neighborhoods.

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist or I'm just oversimplifying. I just don't understand how some blue hairs can have such a stranglehold on this town.

Good question. Some theories:

1. It is a Town. It is not a national election many people don't simply follow Town politics.

2. Older voters vote. The older voters in Vienna were around when it was a much smaller and less busy community. They know the system. They know their votes carry weight. New voters? Folks living in newer homes, with very busy lives, don't pay as much attention as the older voters.

3. Many of the blue hairs are retired federal employees. They get politics and know how to use it. In their case, as this thread discusses, they have used the Vienna machine to "show" the evil developers who is boss over the years. Don't laugh, and maybe if we rolled the dice again on Vienna's history it would not play this way again, but it is what it is.

4. Maud. No underestimate the power of Maud and her dead husband. They were the ringleaders. On a par with Daly in Chicago for control. And since Maud is loaded with millions...who knows where she got it from.

Also From Wikipedia
Re: S&W's "Elements of Style"

"The Boston Globe’s review of the 2005 edition described The Elements of Style as an “aging zombie of a book . . . a hodgepodge, its now-antiquated pet peeves jostling for space with 1970s taboos and 1990s computer advice”.[8]"

New Resident, there's another scenario that explains the situation in Vienna: If you allow for the possibility that the hyperbole and ill-substantiated innuendo on hv.com really is just a bunch of hyperbole and ill-substantiated innuendo, then you don't need to invent conspiracy theories, payoffs, power-mad fiends, and all that other nonsense to explain the town government's behavior. The question you should be asking is what exactly is motivating the owner of this website to put so much effort into a fruitless, multiyear vendetta against the town?

New Resident, there's another scenario that explains the situation in Vienna: If you allow for the possibility that the hyperbole and ill-substantiated innuendo on hv.com really is just a bunch of hyperbole and ill-substantiated innuendo, then you don't need to invent conspiracy theories, payoffs, power-mad fiends, and all that other nonsense to explain the town government's behavior. The question you should be asking is what exactly is motivating the owner of this website to put so much effort into a fruitless, multiyear vendetta against the town?

Because everything on this site was made up? Thanks machine member for dropping by!

New Resident, there's another scenario that explains the situation in Vienna: If you allow for the possibility that the hyperbole and ill-substantiated innuendo on hv.com really is just a bunch of hyperbole and ill-substantiated innuendo, then you don't need to invent conspiracy theories, payoffs, power-mad fiends, and all that other nonsense to explain the town government's behavior. The question you should be asking is what exactly is motivating the owner of this website to put so much effort into a fruitless, multiyear vendetta against the town?

I have always preferred your razors.

Occam,

Yes, I have considered that as well. But, decisions do seem to be arbitrary and subjective. The current state of development along Maple Avenue, or lack thereof, gives me pause and causes me to question whether the current crop of town leadership is really working in the best interest of all citizens. Besides that, it is pretty clear that the individual behind this site is not the only person who feels this way. So, even if this site was born out of a personal vendetta or just a hatred of old people (something I highly doubt), it has clearly become a place for lots of other residents to register their complaints, concerns, and disappointment. I don't think that can be discounted and simply pushed aside as personal.

As is obvious, I'm new to town. And, as I've said, my wife and I moved here because we've always really liked Vienna. And, we've met lots of other people that don't fit into the Maud machine and who feel the same as we do about this town. But, it hasn't taken long for my wife and I to wonder why things are the way they are. Why do we have so many banks and gas stations? Why is a prime location like the old Safeway becoming a damn Walgreens? Do we really need yet another pharmacy? Why is That's Amore vacant? Why can we buy mattresses and hardwood floors or get our nails done on almost every block, but we can't buy books anywhere? What is going on over at Cedar Lane, as in the increasing numbers of day laborers milling about and the crime? Why do we pay the taxes or water fees that we do? Do we get good value out of our Police or Public Works? I like free mulch, but is that really the best use of town employees or land?

Hey, I love that I can walk my kids to their pediatrician, that we can take a stroll for brunch or to play in the park, that we have great neighbors, that my commute is shorter...and about a hundred other things. But, that doesn't mean I can't see that things could be better. And, I can't help but wonder why it seems like the folks in position to make said changes aren't working all that hard to see them happen. I can concede that I'm new to town and don't know much at all about what has happened to date. But I'd sure like to, so I come here. And it doesn't seem to me like this is all about one person with a grudge.

The question you should be asking is what exactly is motivating the owner of this website to put so much effort into a fruitless, multiyear vendetta against the town?

google the following phrases:

laurie cole vienna

maud robinson

jane seeman

george lovelace vienna

howard springsteen

joan lillis

laine hyde

paul layer

edythe kelleher

steve bukont

need I say More... do you think they would be getting such high rankings on google without these postings? When we get real reporters who chose to uphold the 1st amendment, and not work in conspiracy with the town to keep cameras and video out of the town meetings, this site won't be necessary. Yes, Trompeter knows full well who spearheaded an effort to ban video taping of the VTC meetings, and that's real news, yet he chooses to be mute regarding this evidence. You have to ask yourself, why? What did Brian Trompeter get in return?

Hell, even Brian Trompeter, gets a top five listing on google with this site as a source; given everything he has posted on the internet, that is amazing to have a top 5 listing as this site as the source! Now that's power! The power of the sword! oops I meant pen ;) ...

June 1, 2009 8:00 p.m.

The Town Council will conduct a public hearing on the proposed real estate tax rate for fiscal year 2009-2010.

June 1, 2009 8:00 p.m.

The Town Council will conduct a public hearing on the proposed rezoning of Northside Park from PR-Park and Recreational Zone to PC-Park and Conservation Zone.

Planning and Zoning Department

Will you be there?

I'll be there. There is certainly a way we can produce a budget without raising tax rates.

I used to think that there was some far-reaching content on here -- that is until I worked on a campaign for a challenger. The incumbants' use of town staff and resources to annihilate challengers professionally and personally was a real eye-opener. No need to wonder why former challengers for TC are leaving Vienna.

A year's more press releases for the Sun Gazette, written by TOV employees.

eyes wide open - tell us more. How were town staff/resources used to annihilate challengers? Did they not deliver their leaf mulch or whisper things about them @ the walk on the hill? Give us some examples. Which ones are leaving Vienna besides Brehony?

How were town staff/resources used to annihilate challengers? Did they not deliver their leaf mulch or whisper things about them @ the walk on the hill?

One challenger since 1976 has defeated the machine. One. Your comments, while meant to be cute, are ignorant...and that's being nice to you.

Right - sorry, no cute EVER allowed here HV/Fool Detector. I was sincerely interested in the methods used to personally and professionally "annihilate" and run these folks out of town. I understand now - the "machine" and Boss Maud ruined 'em all.

P.S. And thanks for being so nice for ONLY calling me ignorant - you must be getting soft in your old age HV - always such a peach! XOXO!

Given the comments here, it seems we're just as capable of snide remarks, dressing downs, etc., as the Maudites.

Which then begs the question, why should the average Vienna voter prefer this machine as opposed to the Maude Machine?

Given the comments here, it seems we're just as capable of snide remarks, dressing downs, etc., as the Maudites. Which then begs the question, why should the average Vienna voter prefer this machine as opposed to the Maude Machine?

A truly stupid post. Thanks. The VTC machine actually controls the government for a worthless do nothing end. The vast majority of this site (which is a website not a political machine) spells out in detail the acts of the Vienna government machine. Calling Maud an idiot for how she has run Vienna...and a person like you focuses on the word "idiot" to the exclusion of how the woman has actually run the Town. That kind of thinking is just pathetic.

Social Logic, actually I was referring to the snide remarks made by regulars here *against other posters here.*

I could care less about how people here refer to Maud et al. She's a public figure and there's nothing libelous about calling her an 'idiot.'

But one of the criticisms I've seen here is Maud's rudeness.

So why is it people who oppose -- or even question -- this site's status quo are called 'ignorant,' 'truly stupid,' etc., etc.?

Maud already thinks I'm stupid. Why should I vote for another crowd that openly thinks I'm stupid? If these people don't appear to want my vote, whose vote *DO* they want?

Unless, of course, this site is useful only for public kvetching and is not really meant to attempt structural change to the makeup of Vienna and its town government.

In that case, flame away!